Manufacturing a car and environment numbers!

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
User avatar
Macro
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6459
Registration: 04/12/08, 14:34
x 1610

Re: Manufacturing a car and the environment, figures!




by Macro » 17/06/22, 10:34

Christophe wrote:Yes agree the illustration is badly chosen!!

Any car would have been better than a French one...except Lada! : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:


Did you drive an 80s fiat? : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy: Finally rather you got rolled with a fiat of the 80? : Cheesy:
0 x
The only thing safe in the future. It is that there may chance that it conforms to our expectations ...
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79126
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10974

Re: Manufacturing a car and the environment, figures!




by Christophe » 17/06/22, 10:36

Ah the famous Fiat Panda 4x4!! : Lol:
0 x
User avatar
Macro
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6459
Registration: 04/12/08, 14:34
x 1610

Re: Manufacturing a car and the environment, figures!




by Macro » 17/06/22, 10:40

It wasn't the worst...
0 x
The only thing safe in the future. It is that there may chance that it conforms to our expectations ...
phil59
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2212
Registration: 09/02/20, 10:42
x 504

Re: Manufacturing a car and the environment, figures!




by phil59 » 17/06/22, 14:45

Fiat, I don't think I had, ah, if driving school in fiat ritmo, and lada 1300 .....

But alpha yes. alfasud, alfa75 ....

Renault 5, 18*2, r21, space petrol, and space v6 12S, and safrane V6 24S,,, at least that in renault.
1 x
hmmmmm, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm, huh, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

: Oops: : Cry: :( : Shock:
sicetaitsimple
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 9774
Registration: 31/10/16, 18:51
Location: Lower Normandy
x 2638

Re: Manufacturing a car and the environment, figures!




by sicetaitsimple » 26/06/23, 20:59

Certainly very debatable point by point, even if I don't have the elements to do so.

But there is one that caught my attention, it is that of the emissions linked to the production of the electricity needed for the electric vehicle, ie 26tCO2.
The hypothesis (bottom right), being of a use of 240.000km, at a rate of approximately 15kWh/100km, that would lead to a total consumption of 36MWh.
That is 26/36=722kg/MWh.
I think that even China is doing better....Germany, however, is still quite "coal mining" for sure, it is doing much better, let's not talk about France.

In short, not uninteresting on an "educational" basis, but the figures are certainly not to be taken at face value.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79126
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10974

Re: Manufacturing a car and the environment, figures!




by Christophe » 26/06/23, 22:15

Yeah well...15 kWh is still the low average consumption of an EV...and I think these are the Americans we're talking about here! : Mrgreen:

And you forgot the losses in the energy chain... roughly speaking you have to (at best) produce 15 kWh to have 10 kWh usable in the battery!

So it's not 15 kWh but rather 25 kWh...

So your 722 g/kWh becomes 433 g/kWh...which is quite "reasonable"... : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:
0 x
sicetaitsimple
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 9774
Registration: 31/10/16, 18:51
Location: Lower Normandy
x 2638

Re: Manufacturing a car and the environment, figures!




by sicetaitsimple » 26/06/23, 22:42

Christophe wrote:and I think it's the Americans we're talking about here! : Mrgreen:

I don't know who we're talking about (it's not specified in the infographic) and that's what I wanted to point out by distinguishing China, Germany or France as examples.
As for losses between production and end use of electricity, please source.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79126
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10974

Re: Manufacturing a car and the environment, figures!




by Christophe » 26/06/23, 23:18

Source?

To do what ?

You know very well that there are approximately:

15 to 20% transmission losses from the plant to the socket,

15 to 20% load loss from the socket to the battery,

at least 10% of storage losses in the battery...(100% of the energy transmitted to the battery is not usable)

Enough to go from your 15 kWh "car" to the 25 kWh "central"...
0 x
izentrop
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 13644
Registration: 17/03/14, 23:42
Location: picardie
x 1502
Contact :

Re: Manufacturing a car and the environment, figures!




by izentrop » 27/06/23, 08:25

sicetaitsimple wrote:Definitely very debatable point by point
Indeed, the details of the dowdy evaluation are missing.
Same carbon footprint to make an electric vehicle as an off-battery hybrid :?: : Shock:

Non-rechargeable hybrids should have a larger carbon footprint than thermals, except for those who spend their time in traffic jams.
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "New transport: innovations, engines, pollution, technologies, policies, organization ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 165 guests