New VAE Pipop STEE...without battery with super capacitor

[Grelinette]

It would be a new concept of VAE with super-capacitor, and it is French!
I am not technically competent to say if this ad is credible but it is interesting:

https://www.tf1info.fr/high-tech/video- ... 10761.html

https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/economi ... 1538585125

What do the specialists think?

[Christophe]

A super capacitor is a battery...

In short, journalists still excel in mediocrity!

[Grelinette]

Do not get attached to the words of journalists who are not technicians and write in the simplest way to be understood by all...
Watch the videos where explanations are given on the operation by the specialists of the company.

It is this new concept that is interesting to understand to see if the advantages of this new VAE are credible for the future.
Even if this electric bike is not yet at the top, when we see the dazzling progress that VAE manufacturers have made in a few years since the VAE market has exploded, we can think that there will be more and more innovations for this market.

Add:
in the 2nd link, it is said that there is no more mechanical transmission (chain or belt) but the generator directly drives the motor of the bicycle. Personally, I understand that this already makes it possible to reduce the friction forces due to the transmission, and if the energy produced is greater than that necessary to move the bike+cyclist mass, the excess is stored in the super-capacitors to be returned if necessary.
In short, muscular energy is directly converted into electrical energy, so a priori with less loss.

It would be interesting if you explained to us the fundamental differences between a battery and a capacitor, and a super-capacitor.


And possibly why, as explained in the reports, in this use of VAE, the super-capacitor would be "revolutionary"!...

[Christophe]

From an energy point of view, the mass and volume capacity of the batteries is not good...those of super capacitors are even worse...probably that it approaches those of lead batteries...( to check)

The advantage of super capacitors is the management of power peaks and virtually no wear.

So the use of a super capacitor is interesting only if you recover all the braking energy, which is not realistic with a VAE motor...

On a VAE (battery-powered) you gain 5 to 10% max autonomy by activating braking recovery.

This super capacitor bike must provide assistance that is therefore very reduced in assisted km so...but it is certainly interesting all the same in certain cases...

[Grelinette]

Apart from the comparative debate between batteries and supercapacitors, it seems to me interesting to study this idea of ​​transforming muscular energy directly into electrical energy.
This amounts to saying that there would be fewer losses in transferring the energy produced, using electricity (via wires) than using a mechanical transmission (via a chain or a belt).

[Christophe]

Yes, that would be tantamount to saying that...and it is obviously FALSE physically speaking...

The advantage I said: it is to be able to recover in descents and braking...

A battery does not like uncontrolled loads...a condo does not care about current peaks! This is even why it was invented: to absorb them!

I think that the autonomy given the volume on the luggage rack is a few tens of Wh...so a few km at most! A VAE consumes between 4 and 8 Wh per km...with a ladle...

A classic "mid-range" VAE has 400 to 600 Wh...

There's the Pipop data sheet somewhere (what a weird name...not far from pipo... )

[izentrop]

There was already a project from the same group in 2019 which had flopped https://www.ecovelo.com/un-velo-100-ele ... s-batterie
The interest is that we know a little more, except the energy capacity of the condo

Speed: 15 km/h on average with the possibility of adapting its speed by pressing more or less hard on a button
Weight: about 16 kg. It's lighter than an e-bike, approaching the weight of a classic bike
Price: between €1 & €500, in line with the average price of an e-bike
Design: 3 models will be offered to Internet users, who will choose the final version
An ecological bike:
no rare and expensive metals (the capacitor is made of aluminum and carbon, it does not have lithium)
the capacitor has a lifespan of between 10 and 15 years, compared to 2 to 3 years for a battery
the capacitor will be recyclable, unlike the batteries

On false flat you must, I think, provide an extra effort to accumulate a reserve for the next climb?

Looks like it's selling better this time around. https://www.larep.fr/olivet-45160/actua ... _14071278/

A battery does not like uncontrolled loads...a condo does not care about current peaks! This is even why it was invented: to absorb them!

There are now hybrid capacitors which combine the 2 advantages https://www.digikey.fr/fr/articles/use- ... ot-designs

[Ahmed]

The idea is obviously to smooth out the efforts by taking advantage, not of false flats*, but of real flats (by accepting to press harder on the pedals than this situation usually requires) and especially descents to recover, even if it means produce some energy that would not be needed then. The total energy to be produced remains identical (except for losses), but the maximum effort would remain well below what is encountered on an ordinary bicycle. It would be an intermediate possibility between classic bike and VAE which would be aimed at people in good shape, but with a little limited physical capacity to face the hills a little sustained.
It remains to be seen if this kind of machine will find its audience in the long term, because it remains expensive for equipment inferior to a VAE of this price: basic brakes, no fork suspension... .

* Turning them into real ribs wouldn't really be a good idea!

[Christophe]

Looks like it's selling better this time around.

Like all 2 wheels since the covid... not sure if this is due to better product quality...

[izentrop]

A VAE consumes between 4 and 8 Wh per km...with a ladle...

A 3000 F / 3V condo must be 2,5 Ah https://www.digikey.fr/fr/products/deta ... 8/10442570
If the nominal voltage of the generator is 12 V, 4 condos in series come to 10 Wh, we would be in the nails for around 245 €...
It remains to be seen the reaction of the control electronics of the classic VAE?