Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?

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Remundo
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by Remundo » 11/11/21, 11:48

sen-no-sen wrote:The real question is:Can we make the energy transition without oil?
Nuclear power accounts for 16% of our energy (France) and barely 5% in the world, so this is a bad question.

to this one, it is very easy to answer

clearly no.

renewable energies require the deployment of fairly heavy infrastructures, requiring at the same time the extraction of materials, their manufacture / fittings and transport with an "energy intensity" that only the current mixes, mainly fossil hydrocarbons, can allow.

The idea would be for this to be transient, to the point of obtaining a vast network of almost self-sufficient renewable energy plants.
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by ABC2019 » 11/11/21, 12:04

Remundo wrote:
sen-no-sen wrote:The real question is:Can we make the energy transition without oil?
Nuclear power accounts for 16% of our energy (France) and barely 5% in the world, so this is a bad question.

to this one, it is very easy to answer

clearly no.

renewable energies require the deployment of fairly heavy infrastructures, requiring at the same time the extraction of materials, their manufacture / fittings and transport with an "energy intensity" that only the current mixes, mainly fossil hydrocarbons, can allow.

The idea would be for this to be transient, to the point of obtaining a vast network of almost self-sufficient renewable energy plants.


Iceland already has a completely self-sufficient renewable energy network that provides much more energy per capita (not just electricity, total energy) far superior to that of all Western countries. It does not need any additional means of production.

And yet it still consumes a lot of oil.

So that's not enough to solve the oil problem.

(Obviously the argument is just as much about nuclear).
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by Remundo » 11/11/21, 13:31

Iceland is a small isolated island, which probably does not have sufficient biomass resources to make renewable synthetic fuels.

At the moment fossil fuels are rather cheap and accessible, and we prefer to waste them rather than producing clean things and using them wisely.
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by ABC2019 » 11/11/21, 15:08

Remundo wrote:Iceland is a small isolated island, which probably does not have sufficient biomass resources to make renewable synthetic fuels.

So you confirm that the problem is not limited to making enough RE
As for the exploitation of biomass, that poses other problems, such as deforestation and damage to biodiversity (it is precisely by exploiting it that Iceland made its forest disappear)
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 11/11/21, 15:57

ABC2019 wrote: (it is precisely by logging that Iceland made its forest disappear)

Mostly the Vikings, since the 50s, they reforest ... you can go back to playing the goose game.
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by sen-no-sen » 11/11/21, 17:39

Remundo wrote:(...) For me, talking about nuclear as a stakeholder in the energy transition is as stupid as talking about natural gas. These are exhaustible and polluting energies. On these 2 criteria, they are automatically disqualified.


"Nuclear" in its current form (fission) is effectively exhaustible. With the use of generation 4 and the use of thorium, that would probably leave us more than two centuries of reserves in front of us, or even more if we reuse our waste.
All this is more than enough to reach the end of the century and the mastery of thermonuclear fusion. Lithium reserves are in their turn exhaustible (about 1000 years of reserves), but here again this would be without counting the contributions of new physics. by the end of the century and the possibility of using available resources over very long periods (a-neutron fusion).
I don't think the argument of resource depletion is really solvable, the technique will always exceed its limits (which does not exclude periods of blackouts and / or slowdowns as will be the case for at least 50 years).

The only argument that holds the road is that of the amount of entropy that can be dissipated in nature and its ecological, social, economic and cultural impact ... except this topic is never discussed. : roll:
I have the impression that many very sympathetic associations (like Negawatt) seem to ignore (intentionally or naively) the power of technology.
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by izentrop » 11/11/21, 18:11

Basic Icelandic according to the wooden puppet : Twisted:
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 11/11/21, 18:37

Here, asshole with the stupid avatar ...
https://www.lepoint.fr/monde/les-viking ... 056_24.php
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by Remundo » 11/11/21, 20:01

to come back to the subject, and the "eldorado of fusion" aspect

it would take a huge technological breakthrough, leading us to aneutronic fusion (for example Boron Hydrogen) to be able to exploit something.

Deuterium-tritium fusion, if contained for bombs, continues to hold us in check for civilian applications, and ITER will not change that much in my opinion. Perhaps even the worst technical choice: a lot of energy is lost by the fast neutrons which escape from the plasma and screw up the walls.

nonetheless, it is a hypothetical mirage that sparkles in at least 100 years. Until then, something else must be done.

Thermonuclear fusion energy comes to us naturally and free of charge from the Sun. Just pick it ...
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by ABC2019 » 11/11/21, 20:14

GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:
ABC2019 wrote: (it is precisely by logging that Iceland made its forest disappear)

Mostly the Vikings, since the 50s, they reforest ... you can go back to playing the goose game.

Now that they have geothermal energy for heating and importing oil for transportation, they can afford it. But without oil, they wouldn't go far ...
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