Coronavirus, who or what and why? What origin?

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Re: Coronavirus, who or what and why? What origin?




by Obamot » 19/09/20, 12:44

Christophe wrote:
Adrien (ex-nico239) wrote:
VetusLignum wrote:This would go in the direction of those who believe SARS-COV-2 is a biological weapon.

- created as a potential biological weapon


Bin if this is the case, they got the target wrong ... it is not the oldest who are making the war ... : Cheesy:

So you haven't read my post, nor that of VetusLignum! Naughty! : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
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Re: Coronavirus, who or what and why? What origin?




by Christophe » 19/09/20, 13:40

Didn't I tell you? You are in my ignored! : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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Re: Coronavirus, who or what and why? What origin?




by Obamot » 19/09/20, 15:42

Do you have divination gifts then? ah bein no, not even, because you would not have written the previous post, nor this one!

Damn ! Damn ! And .. Damn! : Wink:
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Re: Coronavirus, who or what and why? What origin?




by VetusLignum » 20/09/20, 02:18

Obamot wrote:Admitting that this was deliberate (and true) I've been thinking for a while: “who could benefit from the crime"

From China: (to severely warn the West against any hostility towards it or whatever?)
=> Yes but in this case 1) the pandemic would not have left this country 2) they would have used another strain of virus which would not have made it possible to go up the chain, 3) it is difficult to think that China is be done harakiri, because they could not ignore that China would be singled out and one of the worst shames for Asians is to lose face.

From Russia: (for motivations similar to China, NATO having broken its Yalta pact not to extend to the East, and other geopolitical data: revenge over sanctions, war in Syria, Ukraine, etc)
=> yes but there again it would be a harakiri, and historically the Russians are not hawkish except if we attack their territories and ex-satellites (compared to the USA which has been at war non-stop since World War II!) Russia would not have betrayed China, using a virus which they could not have ignored accused the Chinese of and which is a strategic ally, first customer in the arms industry and a member of the BRICS.

From the USA: (for similar motivations, the opposite, to make people believe in Chinese responsibility and to break the country which robs them of the economic leadership? Or to bring down the dictatorship of the central party?)
=> more likely, but here too a harakiri, except that among the weirdos who manage this sort of “parliamentary dictatorship” (with the “deep state” which really runs the country without ever having been elected, a real danger for the planet) there may be some crazy enough to have thought that in this way they could slow down the galloping demography of the planet: you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs ... But since the USA has invested in the lab Wuhan's P4 would be a serious candidate ... Very skilled as they are in handling the media (and even globally).

Any country, what I would not understand (if it was true) would be that the initiators could not ignore that any virus ends up degrading as it replicates, and that in this case, a combination of strains killing more particularly the young would have been selected (which is scary to think and horrible to say ...). And not the elderly since it is not they who “reproduce” ...

However, it is possible that there was research around a potential anti-demographic weapon, but the aim of which would have been to guard against it (and not to disseminate a virus (since they no longer even hide let them experiment for this purpose everywhere.) Last but not least, even a virus made in the laboratory can suffer “planned obsolescence”(Already by the fortuitous mutations resulting from its own“ aging ”) but there can be“ failures ”in this one (there are some regularly).



It is very difficult to answer this question.

On the previous page, I talked about the idea that the virus was pre-adapted to Remdesivir; but it is still difficult to imagine that a laboratory can be so powerful (to the point of spreading a virus just to sell products).

What is clear is that this virus is destabilizing many countries, and especially Western countries, whose weaknesses it highlights; and we do not yet measure all the consequences. An authoritarian country like China handles these kinds of difficulties better than many other countries.

What it seems reasonable to think is that the WIV has done a multitude of experiments on coronaviruses (officially in order to prepare for a next pandemic), and that one of these viruses has leaked through mistake. If it had been a question of deliberately releasing the virus, it might have been smarter to do so elsewhere than in Wuhan.

From there, the CCP and the NIH (linked to the American deep state, and which financed the work of the WIV) agreed to conceal the origin of the virus and ensure that it is not managed properly, in order to get the maximum profit from it (among the profits, there are: losing Trump, selling drugs, vaccines, weakening certain countries ...).

This is what I think today, but my opinion may change.
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Re: Coronavirus, who or what and why? What origin?




by izentrop » 20/09/20, 03:12

VetusLignum wrote:What it seems reasonable to think is that the WIV has done a multitude of experiments on coronaviruses (officially in order to prepare for a next pandemic), and that one of these viruses has leaked through mistake.
Not for qualified scientists who publish in serious, non-predatory peer-reviewed journals https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9 among others.
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Re: Coronavirus, who or what and why? What origin?




by Obamot » 20/09/20, 08:46

We are not here to talk about this Izentrop, but to assess other hypotheses than the mainstream purr to which you are so attached (“GMOs are good for health and will save the planet, just like nuclear power, which is not dangerous, and worry-free mineral oils to put in your salads”, Yours we know as well as your patterns ...) so you can always“ manifest ”. : Mrgreen:
VetusLignum wrote:
Obamot wrote:Admitting that this was deliberate (and true) I've been thinking for a while: “who could benefit from the crime"

From China: (to severely warn the West against any hostility towards it or whatever?)
=> Yes but in this case 1) the pandemic would not have left this country 2) they would have used another strain of virus which would not have made it possible to go up the chain, 3) it is difficult to think that China is be done harakiri, because they could not ignore that China would be singled out and one of the worst shames for Asians is to lose face.

From Russia: (for motivations similar to China, NATO having broken its Yalta pact not to extend to the East, and other geopolitical data: revenge over sanctions, war in Syria, Ukraine, etc)
=> yes but there again it would be a harakiri, and historically the Russians are not hawkish except if we attack their territories and ex-satellites (compared to the USA which has been at war non-stop since World War II!) Russia would not have betrayed China, using a virus which they could not have ignored accused the Chinese of and which is a strategic ally, first customer in the arms industry and a member of the BRICS.

From the USA: (for similar motivations, the opposite, to make people believe in Chinese responsibility and to break the country which robs them of the economic leadership? Or to bring down the dictatorship of the central party?)
=> more likely, but here too a harakiri, except that among the weirdos who manage this sort of “parliamentary dictatorship” (with the “deep state” which really runs the country without ever having been elected, a real danger for the planet) there may be some crazy enough to have thought that in this way they could slow down the galloping demography of the planet: you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs ... But since the USA has invested in the lab Wuhan's P4 would be a serious candidate ... Very skilled as they are in handling the media (and even globally).

Any country, what I would not understand (if it was true) would be that the initiators could not ignore that any virus ends up degrading as it replicates, and that in this case, a combination of strains killing more particularly the young would have been selected (which is scary to think and horrible to say ...). And not the elderly since it is not they who “reproduce” ...

However, it is possible that there was research around a potential anti-demographic weapon, but the aim of which would have been to guard against it (and not to disseminate a virus (since they no longer even hide let them experiment for this purpose everywhere.) Last but not least, even a virus made in the laboratory can suffer “planned obsolescence”(Already by the fortuitous mutations resulting from its own“ aging ”) but there can be“ failures ”in this one (there are some regularly).



It is very difficult to answer this question.

On the previous page, I talked about the idea that the virus was pre-adapted to Remdesivir; but it is still difficult to imagine that a laboratory can be so powerful (to the point of spreading a virus just to sell products).

What is clear is that this virus is destabilizing many countries, and especially Western countries, whose weaknesses it highlights; and we do not yet measure all the consequences. An authoritarian country like China handles these kinds of difficulties better than many other countries.

What it seems reasonable to think is that the WIV has done a multitude of experiments on coronaviruses (officially in order to prepare for a next pandemic), and that one of these viruses has leaked through mistake. If it had been a question of deliberately releasing the virus, it might have been smarter to do so elsewhere than in Wuhan.

From there, the CCP and the NIH (linked to the American deep state, and which financed the work of the WIV) agreed to conceal the origin of the virus and ensure that it is not managed properly, in order to get the maximum profit from it (among the profits, there are: losing Trump, selling drugs, vaccines, weakening certain countries ...).

This is what I think today, but my opinion may change.

On the same assumption - well, come on, the gray area of ​​knowing this was deliberate or not is going to persist, we will never know completely anyway, and conspiracy theory experts will rush to prevent any debate. reasonable - we should develop, so let's continue ...

It should not be forgotten that, acting in concealment, the great 'all manias' of the “deep state”Committed unimaginable blunders - the most famous in the name of the“ Third Amigos ”, that is to say 3 senators: Joe Lieberman, John McCain (deceased last year) and Lindsay Graham, all three former candidates for the US presidential election - and are and were in all military and civilian “coups”, very involved in areas such as:

- Politics: sits on multiple committees, caucus member, with a relationship with Donald Trump, very present during Supreme Court appointments, having created or being part of all kinds of networks (with the Bush family, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Zbigniew Brzezińsk (deceased), Brent Scowcroft (deceased), Condoleezza Rice, Madeleine Albright, Kelly Ayotte, Samuel Alito, Brett Kavanaugh and many more.
- Being part of more influential groups such as the "Gang of 14" interested in all kinds of sensitive subjects such as:
- all that relates to the military domain
- oversight of the National Security Agency
- interrogation of detainees
- immigration reform
- Internet and new technologies
- Firearms rights
- Health care
- Vaccines
- abortion
- LGBTQ rights
- Climate change
- Foreign politic
- Military drones
- CIA, FBI, NSA, and Department of Defense.
- Taxation and trade
- Religious domain.

General Wesley Clark had unboxed one aspect of it in public:



So you can hardly imagine the power of these people. But they crash regularly and it ends up coming to the surface ...
9/11 for example, the USA has always been to support Al Qaeda / Daesh ... (called “rebels” in Syria, and they don't even hide it anymore ...) it shows here:



One way or another the situation related to covid-19 has been exploited (and it is far from over) ... All of the world's great fortunes have increased further thanks to SARS-cov -2 (that raises questions when they should have lost a lot) how to explain that when the citizens of all countries and many companies are sticking their tongue out? We must therefore see this on a global level.

So we meet on the points you mention. The hardest part will be to make a fair and balanced summary of the situation, without falling into the trap of the “so called” conspiracy (or “conspiracy theory”).

Without wishing to be categorical, among the most obvious objectives, one can perhaps foresee an underlying economic war (endemic and made to the Eastern bloc) reinforced since China became the first world economic power, that it dented the US leadership (along with Russia), because the Yuan has more credibility in the markets than the dollars (and in view of abysmal US debt), and since then, the world's economic center of gravity has grown. is moved east ...
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Re: Coronavirus, who or what and why? What origin?




by VetusLignum » 24/09/20, 13:26

Other developments around the Latham / Wilson hypothesis
https://heraclitusoncovid19.com/origin-of-covid-19/
https://telegra.ph/WIV--EcoHealth-at-th ... 2012-09-18
https://zenodo.org/record/4013209#.X2x8dPZFyUm
https://archive.vn/SJwtx

Hypothesis which Li-Meng Yan thinks is a false trail initiated by the CCP to continue to believe in a natural origin of the virus:

transcript of this video:
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Re: Coronavirus, who or what and why? What origin?




by Obamot » 24/09/20, 16:54

Yes well, that's great news, because suddenly Li-Meng must know the truth then ..?

And a truth that has killed 1 million people, I would not like to have to calculate his life expectancy, but it may be short.
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Re: Coronavirus, who or what and why? What origin?




by VetusLignum » 24/09/20, 22:54

VetusLignum wrote:
VetusLignum wrote:As a reminder, the phylogenetic tree of SARS-CoV-2:
Image

Doubts about the Pangolin COV:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 7.077016v1
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 7.184374v1
https://zenodo.org/record/4007845#.X0zrT_ZFyUk

Doubts about the RaTG13 (one of the problems being that it has little affinity for bats):
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202008.0205/v1
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202008.0595/v1
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 342v1.full
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 459v1.full
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 019v1.full
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41594-020-0468-7

From there, what do we have left?
Well there are the next 2 viruses left in the phylogenetic tree, ZC45 and ZXC21, both bat viruses discovered in Zhoushan.

The idea is that SARS-CoV-2 would be the result of genetic manipulations (GOF and passaging) of one of these 2 viruses, and that the WIV would have published false genomes (RaTG13 and Pangolin-CoV) to create a false track.

This is the theory defended by an anonymous Chinese scientist communicating under the pseudo NerdHasPower, and virologist Li Meng Yan.

At the same time, the Wuhan coronavirus is STRANGELY similar to two bat coronaviruses, ZC45 and ZXC21. Overall, the sequence of either of the two bat coronaviruses is 95% identical to the Wuhan coronavirus. In fact, for most part of the genome, such level of identity is maintained or even surpassed. The E protein, in particular, is 100% identical. The nucleocapsid is 94% identical. The membrane protein is 98.6% identical. The S2 portion (2nd half) of the spike protein is 95% identical. However, when it comes to the S1 portion (1st half) of the spike protein, the sequence identity suddenly drops to 69%. This pattern of sequence conservation, between either of the closely related bat coronaviruses and the Wuhan coronavirus, is extremely rare and strange!
This is extremely rare because natural evolution typically takes place when changes (mutations) occur randomly across the whole genome. You would then expect the rate of mutation being more or less the same for all parts of the genome.



https://nerdhaspower.weebly.com/blog/sc ... s-man-made
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3981833
https://ccnationalsecurity.org/is-analy ... artys-lie/



A new publication from Li-Meng Yan where she explains her theory that SARS-CoV-2 was created in the laboratory from a Zhoushan virus (ZC45 or ZXC21):
https://zenodo.org/record/4028830#.X2CpffZFyUm


Continuation of the debate:
https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org ... se-yan.pdf
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1308 ... 32320.html
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Re: Coronavirus, who or what and why? What origin?




by Ahmed » 24/09/20, 23:08

There is no need to consider this kind of hypothesis when one observes that one of the most widespread farms is that of pigs *, the perfect intermediary between wild animals and humans. Pigs are first contaminated by wild species dislodged from their natural habitat and which is no longer (sic), then another easier mutation (given the great genetic proximity between pigs and us [in all humans, there is a sleeping pig, it is well known! : Wink: ]) allows the virus to pass to the man who lives next door, this con ... : roll:

* Especially in China. Astonishing, no? : Mrgreen:
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