Advice on the choice of heating

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fuliculi
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by fuliculi » 21/12/06, 18:31

The hot air rises yes, but does not propagate well and does not pass much under the doors ...

I see the result with my parents' fireplace: It heats up well below, even better upstairs in the mezanine but no difference in the rooms or very little if the doors remain open.
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rpsantina
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by rpsantina » 21/12/06, 18:38

The wooden floor is the best ... especially no carpet and other gerflex (I transfer mine as soon as I can redo my floor)

I heated part of my house (75m² on 2 levels) with just my fireplace (10 to 12 stere / year) ... I had to install electrical convectors in disaster (2x 500w) after installing a plastic coating on the 'floor : Cry:
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fuliculi
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by fuliculi » 21/12/06, 18:54

The heat of the ground floor would go directly to the floor via the ceiling? For the floor, we rather think of leaving on a concrete slab, to avoid the inconvenience of noise.

The covering will not be carpet but tiling or parquet.

Otherwise someone has an idea of ​​the price range of the additional cost to have the heated floor upstairs also on 50m²?
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by Other » 22/12/06, 06:18

fuliculi wrote:The soil temperature varies generally (it seems) between 5 ° C (winter) and 15 ° C (summer), there is necessarily a supply / saving of calories but the question is also how long the well will be profitable.

If it is well designed and done on its own, less than a decade should be enough.


The soil temperature varies between 12 c and 10 c, contrary to what one might believe in January in the coldest weather -25 it is 11c it is in spring when the earth thaws and even in the month of may be 9c low lasts a month



Ideally, with a good exchange surface, the incoming air should stabilize at earth temperature, i.e. 11 to 13 ° C whatever the outside T °.


How to explain that the water of the aqueduct pumped in winter in the St Laurent river makes 4c under the ice and despite it walking in the ground for 5 km in my case arrives only at 7c at the tap?


Do you have examples of people who have had Canadian wells for several years? it would be good to have their comments.
I have many reservations on the Canadian well, I live in Canada and I have never seen this kind of installation, nobody knows that!
A simple tunnel in the ground is not an ideal exchanger, it is far from being as efficient as a liquid which circulates in the water table, to pump the calories of the ground
For a home heating, there are several factors to consider the climate or living if the temperature rarely drops to -10 and not long, I think that a geothermal is an interesting solution, but the recipe is to build a house perfectly well insulated (the supply of outside air is a necessary evil and it is not that which cools the most a house, it is mainly the ceiling then comes the outside walls.

Geothermal energy uses a liquid in the ground and an air system for the house that has a double advantage is that it makes a ventilation and it is reversible for the air conditioning with the increasingly hot summers it becomes interesting.
In addition, it is easy to control the ventilation in the different rooms or floor, and we can incorporate an electronic air filtering system, more dust, ionized air, without polleen.
To use the solar it is enough to make a solarium or to have large double caloriverre panes (here it installs triple panes but in double Europe that should be enough) well exposed that heats the house even in winter when it is sunny, the solarium I made a double glazed patio door to close it during the great cold and during the great heat.

Geothermal energy is quite expensive to install, the heat pump if it is too small after 10 years you must change the compressor if it is too big it starts and stops too often (loss of performance the first 5 minutes of walking it does not heat up strong) on ​​the other hand it lasts a 30 years if the installation is well made.


Andre
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Woodcutter
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by Woodcutter » 22/12/06, 09:46

fuliculi wrote:[...] but the question is also to know how long the well will pay for itself. [...]
There is a time when, within reason of course, you have to stop reasoning all the time in terms of "profitability"! : roll:

Profitability compared to what, since the costs of producing CO2 are not counted anywhere! : Shock:
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by Woodcutter » 22/12/06, 09:51

Andre wrote:[...]
Ideally, with a good exchange surface, the incoming air should stabilize at earth temperature, i.e. 11 to 13 ° C whatever the outside T °.
How to explain that the water of the aqueduct pumped in winter in the St Laurent river makes 4c under the ice and despite it walking in the ground for 5 km in my case arrives only at 7 c at the tap? [.. .]
Because water has a much higher calorific capacity than air and an aqueduct does not have a large exchange surface compared to the speed of circulation of the fluid ...
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fuliculi
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by fuliculi » 22/12/06, 13:50

For example, go to http://monpuit.est-ici.org/

It is a homemade well and with very very interesting readings (loss of 19 ° C in summer and gain of 17 ° C in winter).

On the other hand, it is absolutely necessary to choose a material other than PVC, unlike it !!! There is no study done but there would be toxic fumes. It is necessary to take a material used for food (ex: polyethylene).

To design a Canadian well, you must:
- choose the right pipe (no leaks in the pipe to avoid radon)
- high air intake
- air intake away from roads for exhaust gases
- air intake away from plants for pollen
- a protective grid for dead leaves and rodents
- a filter for pollen and insects
- a well insulated pipe to the CMV
- a slope of 2 ° minimum to avoid standing water
- a siphon for the condensa
- and many others
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fuliculi
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by fuliculi » 09/01/07, 13:44

Hello again,

our builder, who planned gas everywhere (sanitary water, underfloor heating at the bottom, radiators at the top) announces a capital loss of € 12 if we wish to install geothermal energy by a geothermal professional. The builder will install the water heater and convectors on the floor (included in the capital loss), we just have the ground floor to study with the heating engineer.

The heating contractor gave us an estimate (OUT OF STATE PREMIUM):
- floor / floor system on 72m²: € 12 all inclusive
- 72m² ground / water system: € 12 all inclusive
- option: dual-energy sanitary water heater (300L): + € 2

The water heater: the heating engineer says that it is not so interesting for two people to take this dual-energy water heater, a simple water heater will do the trick. It is more interesting from 2/4 people. The disadvantage of the dual-energy water heater is that the pump must turn, so that in winter because in summer it is no longer profitable if it runs only for the dual-energy water heater. There is however the possibility of installing one later (round trip to the pump)

He explained to us the difference, the water / water system being rather reserved for the system equipped with a probe to recover water from the water table.

The soil / soil system:
+ more efficient because no exchanger (+ 25% overpower to heat the floor)
+ no maintenance of the circuit (except when the pump is dead)
+ little inertia in the rise / fall of temperature (principle of direct expansion)
+ scalable: in the future, the possibility of heating the ground further by connecting it to solar panels because the circuit is made of copper (pvc for soil / water) it works but the panels remain expensive.
- diameter of the internal circuit <diameter of the internal gas circuit of 1.5mm. It is therefore necessary to circulate the water more quickly if you wish to switch to gas heating.

The soil / water system:
+ interesting if we want to switch from gas heating to geothermal energy (not our case)
- significant inertia in the rise / fall of temperature, the temperature curve is sinuzoidal
- maintains the interior circuit every year (mud and algae forming in the water)
- less efficient with the heat exchanger (20% overpower to heat the floor)


We will probably take the soil / soil without dual energy water heater:
- € 12 all inclusive without state premium. (much cheaper than gas installation)
- around € 2500 to deduct with the state premium (note, valid until 2010) (TO BE CHECKED)
- loan with TEG 2.95% of € 7200 (€ 100 / m²) with EDF to be deducted from the mortgage (TO BE VERIFIED)


For the double flow CMV, we abandoned the project. Too expensive and the manufacturer does not want to risk it (already had problems) because risk of acrus failure.
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