Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?

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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?




by Julienmos » 30/04/20, 19:23

Did67 wrote:
Julienmos wrote:
because staying at home with just doliprane, hoping it goes well, is not particularly reassuring ...


If it's not serious (98% of cases), it will pass ... Some doctors have a priori, taken the risk of prescribing hydroxychloroquine (a priori, according to what some have said themselves on the media - proof that the sanctions ....). I doubt that mine would have done it.

And if it's serious, you will be hospitalized!


but precisely if this chloroquine prescribed AT THE BEGINNING makes it possible to avoid a possible aggravation (it is only a hypothesis, effectiveness not yet proven despite what Raoult says) ... and since it seems no Raoult patient has known of heart problems due to this hydrochloroquine (work in close collaboration with a cardiologist) ...

I believe that the real problem (the reluctance to authorize the Raoult protocol for all patients in France from the first symptoms) is rather the "heaviness" of the protocol (test, electrocardiograms, monitoring ...) and the fact of having to be hospitalized for this (which is the case with Raoult in Marseille I believe? from the onset of the disease?)

My family member was at the hospital after a week of doliprane at home. And so, she had this treatment (chloro azitro) and was able to return after her hospitalization.
Her husband, sick at the same time as she, was not at the hospital, it happened with only the doliprane;

Except that 15 days later, they each had a blood test, good results for her, bad for her husband, who then had to have a CT scan which revealed pulmonary damage ...

So with doliprane alone, even if you think you are cured, it is not necessarily the case!
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?




by Did67 » 30/04/20, 19:46

Again: I don't know, for hydroxychloroquine. And everyone is free to believe what seems good to them. And, here, to express it freely.

My point of view here is that the sentence you are quoting is not being honest - that's just it. Nothing more. No, a doctor cannot prescribe légalement hydroxychloroquine apart from the indications mentioned. Yes, in hospitals, we can prescribe hydroxychloroquine legally since I do not know how many in March. That’s all I’m saying.

I added that any city doctor can conscientiously prescribe - as every citizen can cheat. Drive at 220 on the highway. Do not declare tips to the taxman. Or what do I know. He risks little.

The two cases do not make a sample.

I believe that for rigorous people, the question is not scientifically decided (but I am not interested in the subject much these last days; it gives me, this masturbation of hydroxychloroquine and all these ignorant set up as "specialists" who judge people with skills; deformation of our time, everyone is the most beautiful, the smartest; everyone knows better than the coach what the best national football team is - except when the coach's team wins the world cup, there the imbeciles are crashing; so yes, it stuffs me; no, I do not know, no I do not take a position on the merits that is to say is it effective or not ? If tomorrow I am diagnosed, I do not know what I would ask if I was listened to).

Beyond what is scientifically demonstrated, we are in the belief. Scientists are, despite what they show or the image they cultivate, great believers. By definition, a hypothesis that we test is a belief - in the strict sense of the word. "I believe that under such conditions, such and such a thing works like that". Therefore, I develop a protocol, which, if it is well constructed, will confirm that this is true (or on the contrary invalidated).

For me, Raoult is a believer (in the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine). Its opponents are believers (in its ineffectiveness).

It gets a bit more complicated, because there are "clues", pre-publications, etc ...

So these are believers whose eyes are starting to open ...

The chapels don't interest me.

So I do not know. I am agnostic.

But Joyeux, as you quoted it, I am categorical, telling a lie (at least by omission!). Of two ends of sentence "for the indications envisaged" and "legally" ... With these details close, he is right. But that changes everything! I'm not interested in this gentleman, but if the rest is just as serious, my god, we are the science !!!!
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?




by Christophe » 30/04/20, 20:53

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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?




by perseus » 01/05/20, 12:01

Hello,

Did67 wrote:Again: I don't know, for hydroxychloroquine. And everyone is free to believe what seems good to them. And, here, to express it freely.

My point of view here is that the sentence you are quoting is not being honest - that's just it. Nothing more. No, a doctor cannot prescribe légalement hydroxychloroquine apart from the indications mentioned. Yes, in hospitals, we can prescribe hydroxychloroquine legally since I do not know how many in March. That’s all I’m saying.

I added that any city doctor can conscientiously prescribe - as every citizen can cheat. Drive at 220 on the highway. Do not declare tips to the taxman. Or what do I know. He risks little.

The two cases do not make a sample.

I believe that for rigorous people, the question is not scientifically decided (but I am not interested in the subject much these last days; it gives me, this masturbation of hydroxychloroquine and all these ignorant set up as "specialists" who judge people with skills; deformation of our time, everyone is the most beautiful, the smartest; everyone knows better than the coach what the best national football team is - except when the coach's team wins the world cup, there the imbeciles are crashing; so yes, it stuffs me; no, I do not know, no I do not take a position on the merits that is to say is it effective or not ? If tomorrow I am diagnosed, I do not know what I would ask if I was listened to).

Beyond what is scientifically demonstrated, we are in the belief. Scientists are, despite what they show or the image they cultivate, great believers. By definition, a hypothesis that we test is a belief - in the strict sense of the word. "I believe that under such conditions, such and such a thing works like that". Therefore, I develop a protocol, which, if it is well constructed, will confirm that this is true (or on the contrary invalidated).

For me, Raoult is a believer (in the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine). Its opponents are believers (in its ineffectiveness).

It gets a bit more complicated, because there are "clues", pre-publications, etc ...

So these are believers whose eyes are starting to open ...

The chapels don't interest me.

So I do not know. I am agnostic.

But Joyeux, as you quoted it, I am categorical, telling a lie (at least by omission!). Of two ends of sentence "for the indications envisaged" and "legally" ... With these details close, he is right. But that changes everything! I'm not interested in this gentleman, but if the rest is just as serious, my god, we are the science !!!!


Well, that pretty much sums up my thinking. So thank you.
Finally, while waiting for solid scientific feedback, all the threads on this subject are going around in circles as surely as the fashionable news channels, see more.

Incidentally, I think that whatever it turns out, the damage is done.
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?




by Julienmos » 02/05/20, 13:43

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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?




by GuyGadebois » 02/05/20, 14:14

Julienmos wrote:https://www.ladepeche.fr/2020/05/01/coronavirus-une-nouvelle-etude-identifie-plusieurs-molecules-prometteuses-et-ecarte-lhydroxychloroquine,8870144.php

Magnificent, sponsored by Roche *, Pfizer ** (with eFFECTOR Therapeutics **) and Sanofi (Pasteur, therefore), a sign of independence, impartiality with NO desire for profit!

* How are you working with external partners on programs focused on COVID-19?
We initiated an internal research program to develop drugs against SARS-CoV-2. We also initiated an external collaboration with Nevan Krogan and his team at the University of California San Francisco (UCSF)
https://www.roche.com/strongertogether/ ... search.htm

** Earlier this year eFFECTOR announced a license and collaboration agreement with Pfizer for its eIF4E program (molecule: zotatifin tested for covid-19 ndr) with an upfront fee of $ 15M and a total value up to $ 507M, including an option to co-promote in the US.
https://www.ktvn.com/story/41669776/eff ... conference
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?




by GuyGadebois » 02/05/20, 14:51

Read on the Institut Pasteur website about the new tests:
In the category of modulators Sigma-1 and Sigma-2, the antipsychotic haloperidol, used to treat schizophrenia, has shown antiviral activity against SARS-CoV-2

https://www.pasteur.fr/fr/espace-presse ... tiellement

Read on the public drug database site:
HALDOL can cause heart problems, difficulty controlling body or limb movements, and a serious side effect called "neuroleptic malignant syndrome". It can also cause severe allergic reactions and blood clots.

http://base-donnees-publique.medicament ... &typedoc=N
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?




by gegyx » 02/05/20, 14:59

HALDOL can cause heart problems, difficulty controlling body or limb movements, and a serious side effect called 'neuroleptic malignant syndrome'
I just saw it cause, Castaner must use it daily. :|
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?




by pedrodelavega » 02/05/20, 19:37

GuyGadebois wrote:
Julienmos wrote:https://www.ladepeche.fr/2020/05/01/coronavirus-une-nouvelle-etude-identifie-plusieurs-molecules-prometteuses-et-ecarte-lhydroxychloroquine,8870144.php

Magnificent, sponsored by Roche *, Pfizer ** (with eFFECTOR Therapeutics **) and Sanofi (Pasteur, therefore), a sign of independence, impartiality with NO desire for profit!

* How are you working with external partners on programs focused on COVID-19?
We initiated an internal research program to develop drugs against SARS-CoV-2. We also initiated an external collaboration with Nevan Krogan and his team at the University of California San Francisco (UCSF)
https://www.roche.com/strongertogether/ ... search.htm

** Earlier this year eFFECTOR announced a license and collaboration agreement with Pfizer for its eIF4E program (molecule: zotatifin tested for covid-19 ndr) with an upfront fee of $ 15M and a total value up to $ 507M, including an option to co-promote in the US.
https://www.ktvn.com/story/41669776/eff ... conference


The sources that you cite have no connection with this study in question done in university, it seems to me:
https://www.ladepeche.fr/2020/05/01/cor ... 870144.php
https://www.pasteur.fr/fr/espace-presse ... tiellement
"An international initiative bringing together researchers fromCalifornian University San Francisco (UCSF), Gladstone Institutes, Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai andPasteur Institute reveals promising compounds for clinical trials to fight COVID-19. The study, led by Dr. Nevan Krogan (director of the UCSF Quantitative Biosciences Institute), shows that some drugs could fight COVID-19 while another promotes infectivity. "

Furthermore, if we go this way, the Marseille IHU has links of interest with Sanofi which produces Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine).

I think we must remain cautious in the face of confidence in this sulphurous character:
https://www.lemonde.fr/cop21/article/20 ... 27432.html
and let science do its work between scientists .... As far as possible from the media.
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?




by GuyGadebois » 02/05/20, 19:40

pedrodelavega wrote:Furthermore, if we go this way, the Marseille IHU has links of interest with Sanofi which produces Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine).

This molecule has fallen into the public domain ... : roll:
Afterwards, when you don't want to see the obvious links between these labs and the "new study", you might as well go blind ...
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