Thorium: the future of nuclear power?

[Remundo]

it is necessary to know that wherever Bardal and Sicétaitsimple pass, they make the union to ridicule their interlocutors with an unfeigned morgue.
so the debate is of a very poor quality.

I assume to "ridicule" someone who calls to sign a petition in which it is written that methanizing our peelings and our excrements would allow "to producing countries to free themselves from any external dependence ......".

No morgue in there.

I do not think Guy restricted himself to our cacas and our peelings, but had a broader vision on all mobilizable biomass,

and in a more courteous debate, we have come to the conclusion that it is an interesting sector, which must be combined with others.

Guy's "hobby" is gas, I have mine too, it's biomass to liquid by gasification + synthesis of methanol or ethanol.

[sicetaitsimple]

and in a more polite debate, we came to the conclusion that it is an interesting channel, which must be combined with OTHER.

Of course it's an interesting sector, I never said the opposite, it just has its limits.
I copy the test of the petition (initially against the electric vehicle that actually asks some questions), but we do not answer questions by lies:

"The real solution for the energy transition is biogas: it is produced from our organic waste (renewable resource to infinity: everyone eats, peels and defecates). It would enable producing countries to overcome any external dependence, fits any gasoline automobile, with the key: https://www.gaz-mobilite.fr/dossiers/av In addition, the price of the car is quite reasonable compared to the electric (even cheaper than some gasoline or diesel models). As a reminder there are 823 000 vehicles running on natural gas in Italy, 100 000 in Germany but 3 500 000 in Iran, 3 000 000 in China ... and hardly 13000 in France, country of Diesel! Wake up and refuse the electric car! Consider also other uses of Biogas: En equipping any new collective construction of a Biogas generator, it is possible to heat the buildings for free (once the installation is depreciated) and to use this gas for cooking.. By equipping the animal farms with these same generators, one can heat the installations, the farms. By optimizing the production of Biogas and equipping our incinerators with this technique (requires the sorting of waste), we could drastically reduce the pollution of these structures and turn with the gas produced, generators producing electricity.

PS: I know it's not the topic, but as I'm relaunched ....

[Bardal]

Yeah, an idyllic vision but totally naive, ignoring orders of magnitude.

Right here ( http://www.amisdelaterre40.fr/spip/spip.php?article230 ) Friends of the Earth's analysis of methanisation applied on a somewhat more realistic scale (but far from covering a significant part of the needs) in Germany; there is a long way to go.

So, yes, biomethanation is a possible path, or liquid biofuels, but it is far from being the miracle solution presented by this petition; it is at most a way to supplement at the margin an energy mix, perhaps for some specific needs ... with nuisances and limits well pointed by Friends of the Earth, little suspected of being nuclear and anti -environmentalists...

Moreover, to avoid locking ourselves into false debates, would it be so difficult to recognize that a decarbonated energy transition will inevitably lead to a global mix composed of all low GHG emitting energies, developed in a differentiated way according to the geographical situations and climatic. There is no universal miracle solution, and personally, I have no problem to assert that solar is perfectly valid in the tropics and wind in countries regularly wind, that the possibilities of hydropower are still largely untapped in Asia, Africa and America (but not in Europe), and that nuclear is an obvious solution for countries lacking other resources. But all these sources of energy have disadvantages (all), and it is advisable to make your choices according to the local availabilities ...

Nobody has ever affirmed that nuclear power should constitute, everywhere, the only source of energy (in France, despite some imprudent assertions, nuclear energy represents only 20% of the energy consumed); on the other hand, it would ideally replace coal and some of the hydrocarbons.

The obvious benefits that a thorium-salt-salts sector would bring in terms of safety, drastic reduction of waste and sustainability of the resource (several millennia) are enough to make nuclear acceptable to those who are violently opposed to it? I have some doubts in view of the irrational dose inherent in these debates, but as global warming is more pressing, and fuel resources running out, we may think that the need will be law ... Much to prepare the future...

nb This debate has been focused on thorium, but a breeder station with molten salt breeder can burn uranium238, whose stock in France reaches several hundred thousand tons (several millennia without importation or mining); it's a little less virtuous than thorium, but it's interesting anyway ...

[izentrop]

Rosatom may be the first to operate a molten salt reactor http://www.atomic-energy.ru/news/2019/11/28/99544 in an existing nuclear power plant in a mine.

According to the press service of the mining and chemical company of Zheleznogorsk, it is planned, as a first step, to create a reference installation for research, on which will be obtained the initial data for the design of JSS, which will have a capacity sufficient for the post-combustion of minor actinides: americium, curium and neptunium. These are the elements which contribute the most to the high radioactivity of what remains after reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel waste (SNF).

In a liquid salt reactor, the fuel is not traditional fuel assemblies, but a molten metal salt. In general, according to experts, the extraction of these minor actinides from SNF reprocessing waste and their subsequent "combustion" in the reactor will reduce the amount of the most dangerous radioactive waste. So far, all that can be done with them is to bury deep. Advanced technologies for the elimination of SNF will give Russia enormous advantages on the international market.

In Russia, theoretical developments in this direction began in the second half of the 70s at the Kurchatov Institute. The research results confirmed the efficiency of the salt reactors, but after the Chernobyl disaster and in connection with the general stagnation of nuclear energy, this direction was also reduced. Although the main advantage of JSS may be precisely the inability to repeat a major accident. In Chernobyl, there was a high pressure thermal explosion. And in salt reactors, the pressure of the working area does not exceed one atmosphere. And in the event of a leak in the release of radioactive substances, the saline solution will simply merge into a reserve tank and the fission reaction will stop. As a result, the temperature will also drop and any pollution will remain in the reactor room. In other words, a strong release of radioactive substances is in principle impossible. And it will be worth saying that JSR's ability to burn actinides will make an invaluable contribution to the future of humanity. Neptunium and americium have a half-life of hundreds of years. And 20 liquid salt reactors will be able to process everything that has been accumulated by nuclear scientists over the past half century. “This type of reactor can close the fuel cycle, ie reprocess the accumulated spent fuel with a significant reduction in the amount of waste.

This eliminates the costly and complex process of manufacturing fuel elements with subsequent reprocessing operations, excludes spent fuel storage pools. It is also an inexpensive energy generated, since the efficiency of this type of reactor due to the higher temperature considerably exceeds the efficiency of traditional reactors. Another advantage: the use of uranium 238 and thorium 232 as fuel, which will last several hundred years. And the reserves of uranium 235, which are used in traditional reactors, will only last 50 years. In fact, with the widespread introduction of salt reactors, nuclear power is transferred to other fissile materials, with the processing of large accumulated volumes of used nuclear fuel. If we talk about the calendar, then, depending on the current situation,it will take at least 5-7 years to build the reactor and another two years to set it up. It all depends on the funding ...

[Exnihiloest]

And why not take over the Soviet RTGs at strontium 90? We boost the power a little, we secure them better, everyone puts one at home, no need for a network, no need for an EDF subscription, life is good, right?
https://bellona.org/news/nuclear-issues ... nerators-2

[izentrop]

They have probably all been looted since or the authorities took care of it. The hardest part must be finding the raw material today. In any case, even Europe did not control it in 2009, so the private individual http://www.flashespace.com/html/nov09/16a_11_09.htm

[izentrop]

China delivers its first tank https://fissionliquide.fr/2020/12/21/la ... iere-cuve/

With a diameter of 2,37m and a height of approximately 3,5m, the tank and the cover that accompanies it will accommodate a core with a graphite moderator to ensure operation in the thermal spectrum, a primary loop of molten fluoride salts , an exchanger and a pump - a configuration similar to the prototype MSRE reactor which operated successfully at the Oak Ridge laboratory in the United States between 1965 and 1969.

With a target to start up this first 2MW reactor in March 2021, China is on track to become a leader in the race to commercialize liquid fuel nuclear reactors.

[GuyGadeboisTheBack]

energies-fossils-nucleaire / thorium-the-nuclear-future-t13084-250.html? hilit = Thorium # p363302
Already that Areva and EDF are almost bankrupt, it gives balm to the heart ... to know that the taxes of the French can only explode to continue to go straight into the wall and continue to claim that the KW nunuc is the cheaper of all other solutions.

[Obamot]

And why not take over the Soviet RTGs at strontium 90? We boost the power a little, we secure them better, everyone puts one at home, no need for a network, no need for an EDF subscription, life is good, right?
https://bellona.org/news/nuclear-issues ... nerators-2

Because of nuclear proliferation, as it's marked in your link. But if you gave us a summary of this very, very long article, it wouldn't be bad. You read it ?

[izentrop]

In its race to develop alternative energy sources to coal, Beijing claims to have now taken a new step. A team from the Shanghai Institute of Applied Sciences has just unveiled, in a Chinese specialist magazine, the project for a new type of nuclear power plant. According to Chinese researchers, in fact, from 2030 a first reactor running on thorium, also called a molten salt reactor, could be fully operational and marketable. And offered in particular to countries that are part of the New Silk Roads project. http://www.provencedaily.com/culture/nu ... rium-5720/