Greta facing the deputies

[Ahmed]

Izentrop, you are wrong, because if it is true that Greta is most certainly perfectly sincere, the fact that it is heard assumes the existence of a complacently stretched microphone (it's an image!), because what it says, many others have already said since well for a long time without result: then there was no interest in "saving the climate".
Grelinette: I have never questioned the person of Greta and I do not even criticize the form, in the sense that it does not appear to me in any way abnormal (to take an example) to use a sailboat which involves a carbon footprint in immediate contradiction with the objective, if this allows to carry a message consistent with the latter *. Basically, however, it is objectively manipulated, since it is the economy that seeks to save itself under the pretext of the climate ... and it is the agents of large companies who seek by this "ecological" means to influence governments. in order to finance juicy reforms.

* Because contrary to the usual rhetoric of the formalists, the individual action has no significant impact, only collective changes are important (what some can save will be happily wasted by others ...).

[Janic]

Because contrary to the usual rhetoric of the formalists, the individual action has no significant impact, only collective changes are important (what some can save will be happily wasted by others ...).

Yes and no! Collective changes can occur during catastrophic events (whatever the crisis goes, everyone returns to their past loves), by political constraints, but no constraint has ever produced a membership, on the contrary! Either by an individual awareness and it is very, very slow, but more constructive.

[izentrop]

Izentrop, you are wrong, because if it is true that Greta is most certainly perfectly sincere, the fact that she is heard presupposes the existence of a complacently stretched microphone (it is an image!), Because what she says, many others have already said it for a long time without result: it is that then there was no interest in "saving the climate".

Nevertheless, it has an impact on the rich and the powerful that the previous ones did not have. I also note that those who do not accept it, many see the fight for the climate, as a way to do battle with capitalism, a class struggle ...

[Ahmed]

Izentrop, you write:

Nevertheless, it has an impact on the rich and the powerful that the previous ones did not have.

Because times have changed and investing in this sector of "clean" technologies has become a necessity for capitalism.

Further:

I also notice that among those who do not accept it, many see the fight for the climate, as a way to fight with capitalism, a class struggle ...

Yes, that's a relevant remark, but they are totally wrong, just like those who were terrified by the Popular Front and the reforms of 1936 ... In reality, it is a metamorphosis of capitalism to ensure its survival, which is not understood by those who have stuck to an earlier conception, which has become "classic" since it is perfectly assimilated ... But, as Marx As said, capitalism is a process in perpetual mutation.

[Grelinette]

Hello,
I was going to put a "like" because our conclusions converge, but

Greta Thunberg is only a likely media product handled and sponsored

is wrong, it follows its own convictions and is accountable to no one. She gets help, normal because the subject is large, but from there to be manipulated.

Damn, I missed a "like"!

In fact, in my remarks I try to summarize the ideas of each other by copying the "terms" and opinions expressed, especially on subjects like this one where many experts and specialists speak, but where there are also has many contradictions which make it very difficult to form a perfectly objective opinion on the matter.

I don't know if Greta Thunberg is a "media product" but my comment relayed Christophe's which made me react.
I concede that I should have put quotes in "media product handled and sponsored", even if it probably seems to me possible that the character of Greta Thunberg interests many who will seek to recover her image and her audience, partly for a good cause, but perhaps not that.

This does not exclude that Greta Thunberg is sincere, and that she follows with courage and determination her own convictions against thick and thin. But in today's world it takes a lot of resources, especially financial and material, to stay at the forefront of the media in order to continue to get your message across, and above all to be sufficiently "protected" not to be lashed out by the media. Dark Side of the Force.

"Help", "Sponsoring", "Support", "Assistance", "Cooperation", ... it's more a semantic question.

Greta, may the force be with you !

Add: Ahmed, my comment was not (only) for you! In addition, I know you now enough to first check that there is not a second degree in your words, even an offbeat humor, before reacting. I posted my comment without reading your answer to izentropbut in the end we say the same thing, even if you are more assertive and precise than me in your positions. I remain an eternal dubious.

[Ahmed]

Grelinette, you write:

Ahmed, my comment was not (only) for you!

Of course! And I did not feel particularly targeted, but only wanted to bounce on your words ...

And also:

... even if it seems to me possible that the character of Greta Thunberg interests many who will seek to recover his image and his audience, partly for the good cause, but maybe not that.

Unfortunately, there is no "good cause" here, only good feelings: anything that can be done to counteract the effects of human activity on CR may well bring a one-time improvement, but this gain does not. However, it will not be able to translate at the global level since it is above all about increasing the speed of circulation of capital (and thus making it possible to improve its reproduction).
It should also be noted that these "clean" technologies are only the result of old "developed" countries in need of growth and that this change is based entirely on previous technologies ... It is therefore a matter of adding a new sector, more lucrative, rather than making a real substitution, as is claimed.

[izentrop]

FRANCE AT THE TOP IN CLIMATE CONTROL (TRIBUNE)

In France, the year 2019 was marked by the conjunction of an acute awareness of reality and the danger of global warming caused by increasing emissions of greenhouse gases and by the occurrence of severe periods of heatwave . This growing awareness, especially among our fellow citizens, was manifested by the success of the petition "the business of the century" and the visit of the new icon of ecology [i] Greta Thunberg welcomed with honors by the highest political authorities in our country. Who can not agree when Greta summons politicians to act for the environment, and when she says that we must listen to scientists? But, exceptions made to the sermons addressed to the governors, this summer of "activist ecologism" was, not only, silent on the measures and methods to be implemented to overcome the climatic challenge, with the exception of a general reduction of consumption, but still remained silent on the effectiveness of the climate policies of the different states.

... In any case, we will have to adapt to a climate more like that of the Maghreb than that of Brittany ...

[izentrop]

It is therefore a question of adding a new, more lucrative sector, rather than making a real substitution, as it is claimed.

Of course, the profit machine must continue to run, while directing our actions towards less CO2 released into the atmosphere. The two are not irreconcilable, on condition that the opinion of scientists is taken into account, otherwise the wrong path is ensured as the subsidy for wind turbines and wood energy. The "Biomascarade" https://yonnelautre.fr/spip.php?article2000

[Ahmed]

The economic "managers" have understood that in order for "the profit machine to keep running", it was necessary to play on two tables: conventional solutions emitting CO² and "fight" against this same gas, depending on the circumstances and the places...
The distribution is made roughly * according to the financial capacity of the countries; roughly speaking, the CO² in the southern countries and the energy "virtue" in the northern countries ...

* Because the mixture may be more complex in the details.

[Christophe]

It is not false: