They killed Notre Dame de Paris!

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gegyx
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Re: They killed Notre Dame!




by gegyx » 17/04/19, 10:49

Watch the full testimony of the former cathedral architect, taken from this link, to watch from 12:30 to 30:00

https://www.lci.fr/replay/24h-pujadas-l ... 18621.html
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Re: They killed Notre Dame!




by Did67 » 17/04/19, 12:07

For me, a little surprising this implication that this "old wood" would not burn like that! While it is true that oak is not coniferous, the drier the wood, the more it flames!

I saw in various reports made before, circulation of boards. No need to look far for the necessary "little wood" ...

Having accompanied my father to the forests at a very young age and having been entrusted with maintaining the fire, I can affirm that a fire is a kind of geometric progression: it is very slow at the start, and suddenly, once the fire has reached a certain critical mass, any new supply of wood literally "explodes". And I made fires with freshly cut wood, very wet!

I also, very young, witnessed a fire on a farm following the storage of bad hay (too wet). I was still in this barn the day before. It's "smoldering", and as soon as there is a call, it's like an explosion. There, in this case, it is when the fire reaches the different aeration (under the famous arrow ???) ....

So unlike this architect (I remind you that many architects are ... literary, artists; it is the engineering offices that deal with calculations - resistances, area flow, wave reflection ... ), I'm not surprised at all. I also put the energy that represents such a mass of wood.

Finally, note that the beams did not burn instantly. Besides, it does not remain! But it is at the level of the assemblies that it "slams": they were surely wooden "plugs" ... Once burned, the beams no longer hold together, and with the weight of the roof, it collapses . We saw it on the arrow. The beams burn on the outside, but when it collapses, they are still almost complete! But they no longer "hold"!

Furthermore, it is now established that the alarm sounded the first time, from memory, around 18:20 p.m., then a second time, still from memory, around 18:35 p.m. ...

That there was negligence, I can imagine. For having been responsible for an "establishment receiving the public", I can testify that these SSI (fire alarm system) have a very boring side, with repeated nuisance tripping ... For years, you will see: nothing ! And after 100 trips "for nothing", we rearm, we say to ourselves that it was still "a trip for nothing" ... Has the duty staff really climbed into the framework? Did he go around all the nooks? I think the investigation will tell.

Still from what I followed, the evacuation did not take place until the second trigger ...

This is just an opinion. Mine.

On the other hand, that it would be necessary to rebuild the vault with new stones would not surprise me, indeed. It was quite close to a "lime kiln" indeed!
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Re: They killed Notre Dame!




by gegyx » 17/04/19, 12:26

Thank you for all these clarifications, supported.
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Re: They killed Notre Dame!




by Did67 » 17/04/19, 14:09

The event moved many people ... We are more in emotion than in reflection ...

I heard people who spoke to say nothing ... Others who said things while the pictures showed the opposite ... We are in a world where few people still take the time to observe, then to reason ...

And that's it, the fake-news, it's already gone. The evening. Some known sites. Some politicians ...

Even the title of this thread surprised me, with the implication that it has to be intentional human action ("they ..."). First, I didn't want to post ...

Now we are racing to claim 90% tax credits without realizing that it is just "legal tax evasion laundering". This amounts to making the State pay 90% ... Because this money will be lacking elsewhere. Or will be collected elsewhere, by other ... taxes (if we do not reduce expenses). Either way, it will hurt!

It seems obvious to me that 50/50 would be good. That when company X puts 50, the State puts 50 there too [clearly, company X officially "gives" 100, and the announcement by way of press release widely used by the media, without critical sense; but it would benefit from a tax credit of 50%, that is to say 50 that the State puts]. Currently, it is 60. Some, including Stéphane Bern, claim 90! Where are we going !!!

And already beware of the scams that can be some online "jackpots"!

If I'm smart, I create a kitty, on behalf of a Z company.

I collect say 50 euros on a platform, sum that I agree to pay in full for the work! I actually pay them in full. And I get 000% (as it stands; maybe 60% if the texts change) of tax credit?

I invite people to control their emotions and go through officially approved collectors, such as "Fondation de France" so as not to get fucked!

https://www.fondationdefrance.org/fr/re ... son-reseau

And once again, this is just my opinion.
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Re: They killed Notre Dame!




by izentrop » 17/04/19, 19:45

The workers who built Notre-Dame used a limestone from the Lutetian. The intelligence of our ancestors was such that they selected these stones by reserving the densest ones for the foundations and by privileging those whose shelled bond was the most airy for the vaults. The light is at the top, the heavy is at the bottom.

The warheads resist when the voutain is lighter. It is therefore normal that the voutain is more fragile than the warhead. Finally, to build, the binder used was a lime mortar.

Where there is all the anxiety is in the resistance of these materials to heat.
Burnt limestone can turn into lime. The upper part of the vaults could thus be consumed. Then the stone can burst. In the coming days, temperature oscillations and humidity variations can cause the whole structure to move.
These infinite changes of the stone, in all points of the structure will be reflected on the masonry. But, worse, the transfer of weights will lead, in parallel, the whole building to reposition itself. A supporting pillar which received the thousands of kilos of the frame can be brought to evolve if this thrust fails it.
Worse, all Gothic architecture is based on a subtle balance of thrusts and postponements. If certain parts lose their effectiveness in discharging these thrusts towards the supports, then the whole structure is weakened. And if a pillar falls, the domino game continues, the pushes referring elsewhere.
To this must be added the vibrations which accompanied the blaze. The beams that fall on the vaults create fractures. Notre-Dame is built like a skeleton, a pillar that allows emptying space to let in light. To fracture a bone of this skeleton is to damage the entire structure.

Let us also add that the cathedral is built of reinforced stone. In addition to the mortar, metal studs can bond the stones. If the water infiltrates, the rust gains and explodes the stone.

Finally, the last element, water precisely: the firefighters poured a lot of water during their operations. These liters projected on the flames have seeped, now and already, through the thousand cracks that existed and worked the mortar like stone. It will penetrate the pillars and probably everywhere else.

Tremors and shocks, water and solidary structure. In this mixture we must also cite the fire and its temperature which also brought into play these techniques which had found their balance for centuries. Fire but also molten metal: the frame burned and caused the lead in the roofs to melt. Removing the patties from this metal that has spread everywhere will take years.

Our Lady has been tested. It holds and rises. But the fact that it holds today tells us nothing about what it will be tomorrow. It's like an old lady who has fallen. At the time, she gets up and, in the days that follow, the hematomas appear, the fractures propagate the pain and the old lady has to struggle with her convalescence.

Our Lady is not saved. The photos we see are of a venerable lady who has just emerged from her nightmare night.

Nothing is finished: everything begins. And everything can end more.

(Written from the expertise on Twitter of Clément Salviani)
You have to screw it up and build social housing instead : Wink:
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Re: They killed Notre Dame!




by gegyx » 17/04/19, 21:45

< >

I told you it's 66%.
Bern is delusional.
But a ceiling of 10 would be sufficient / a donation is a donation, to take back is to steal.
The Vatican, still at the RSA?
Lang takes a selfie with the burning cathedral from the Institute of the Arab World.
Arnault no longer wants a tax return on his donation of € 100 million. Must say that the remarks are accentuated ... Yet he is a great philanthropist in the arts. In fact, stories of tax fraud are emerging from several countries.

<< Victor Hugo thanks all the generous donors ready to save Notre-Dame de Paris and suggests that they do the same with Les Misérables. >>

The billion in 2 days begins to worry macron about its position on the isf:
57044248_2488299888058242_2428957465069486080_o.jpg
macron in embarrassment
57044248_2488299888058242_2428957465069486080_o.jpg (97.92 KIO) Viewed 2123 times

In short, it rocks, it falters.
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Re: They killed Notre Dame!




by Did67 » 17/04/19, 23:14

gegyx wrote:
I told you it's 66%.



I maintain that if it is corporate sponsorship, it is 60%, unless it is a "national treasure", where it is 90%. But Notre-Dame is not currently a "national treasure", hence the call of a certain number of people (including Bern, but not only) for there to be a modification of status.

It is deducted from profit tax.

[Are normally classified as "national treasure" works, such as paintings, which risk leaving abroad following an auction; the 90% are granted to keep the work in France; does not really apply to cathedrals!]

See the official notice:

https://www.service-public.fr/professio ... its/F22263

66% rate applies for donations made by individuals physical to a body of general interest or recognized as being of public utility, and is deducted from income tax.

I assumed that each other's announcements concerned their companies, of which the first case falls. For one or the other announcement, it was clear: Pinault, it seems to me, mentioned his holding company, Kering ... Arnault, I don't know.

Small internet search, with the latest info:

- for Arnault, it's LVMH and the Arnault family
- a priori for Pinault, it's the family (who would give up their tax advantage!)

http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/notr ... n-20190417

So I was a bit of a hooker! But obviously, it was messy and risked damaging the image, rather than improving it ...
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Re: They killed Notre Dame!




by Did67 » 18/04/19, 08:24

If we are already talking about money, let's talk about it ...

It is gratifying that solutions are being found, quickly. From my point of view. I am not "Al Quaïda" tendency for the destruction of monuments, be they "Christian" (or others). Although he is a deeply non-believer. Bigotry cannot be fought with destruction. It fights through speech, culture, art ...

And it is appalling, in contrast, to note that such a mobilization is neither possible to save the planet, biodiversity, etc ... Nor of course to welcome immigrants in distress, or to make everyone, on this miserable land, has drinking water ... For example.

We should speak of fear in our morbid tendencies ... IT is very important to "preserve" the past, the roots ... And I think, indeed. But that ??? Impossible to project? To consider the future other than anxious ???

Notre-Dame also shows us what wins ...

And we also see where "emotionalism" leads! [By that I mean "communication through emotion", even the "culture of emotion at all costs"] AND it is clear that our "media" (including the internet) are only pipes, which convey that what is injected into it ... A pipe remains a pipe. Whether he's pumping champagne, shit or petrol ...
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Re: They killed Notre Dame!




by Christophe » 18/04/19, 09:31

gegyx wrote:The billion in 2 days begins to worry macron about his position on the isf
(...)
In short, it rocks, it falters.


Excellent this one! Very good! Bravo to the author! : Mrgreen:
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Re: They killed Notre Dame!




by Christophe » 18/04/19, 09:42

There will be 90% reduction on donations, according to: https://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/polit ... 73435.html

Then it will be easier to justify the reduction on 100 Million than on 10 € ... : Cheesy:
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