A vegetable meadow?

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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to be chafoin
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Re: A vegetable meadow?




by to be chafoin » 10/01/19, 12:19

Happy vegetable year to all!

As a greeting card, this photo of an earthworm that I picked up on the road 15 or 20 days ago.
2018-12-27 15.27.38.jpg
What struck me is the size of this verse (surely an "anecic" of the Holy Grail): I had never seen such a large or such a big one before. Difficult to measure however because it has an extraordinary capacity of extension. But when you see it, it's not misleading, I first thought it was a slow worm, nothing to do with compost worms...
Like what, contrary to what we can read, they can be active in December. I transferred this animal to my vegetable garden but I'm not sure I did well because it is alone and will have to "dig its hole" in the middle of winter...
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Re: A vegetable meadow?




by Did67 » 10/01/19, 14:04

This year, I always have my carrots, celery and other vegetables outside. And who, until then, have pushed!!!

I need to extract the data from my thermal probe to see the minis. - 4°C??? I don't remember any colder. And over very short periods of time. So the temperature did not drop to 10 cm. I think the anecics are catching up with a dry season!

I had found that under my hay, and indeed, had jumped, having the reflex in front of a snake!

It had rained a lot and was the ground saturated??? Because they have to come out of the flooded holes, not being able to find enough oxygen in the water, they "drown" (suffocate). Funny: their ancestors were sailors, a few hundred million years ago!!!
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Re: A vegetable meadow?




by to be chafoin » 10/01/19, 15:19

I don't remember the time, maybe that was it: the rain that floods the soil, especially since the soil here tends to quickly become waterlogged.
In any case it means that there are anecics not very far from my home!

As for the cold, here the freeze came back that very night and screwed up my beans, even the ones that were protected under tunnel. In this regard, what are the effective techniques and gestures to protect crops from frost?

Material question, this year I tried 3 materials: the plastic tunnel, the tunnel with wintering veil (P17) and the one with a thicker wintering veil (30g/m2). The beans faltered under the first 2, a little less under the third but they were much smaller and therefore less sensitive to frost. Regarding frost protection: what is the most effective material?

I had already noticed that fairly advanced beans, especially those in bloom, are more fragile. Also the date of sowing is essential it seems: the beans that suffer the most are those that I sowed 10 days before the date of the previous year, and which began to flower. The smaller ones, less weakened by the frost, had been sown at the end of October, i.e. 3 weeks after the first ones. It is therefore necessary to calculate its window well!

In addition, I wonder if it is absolutely necessary to border the tunnels, and if the holes which are on my old plastic cover do not cancel the effect of the tunnel.

Finally, the winegrowers here are well aware of the pbs linked to frosts (especially in spring). It seems that what is fateful is the moment of the thaw (more than that of the frost itself): it must not be done suddenly (style of a sudden, clear morning, full sun). Quite astonishing techniques have been developed, such as heaters and even fumigation.
the-burning-operations-in-the-vineyards-are-subject-to-very-strict-rules.jpg
the-burning-operations-in-the-vineyards-are-subjected-to-very-strict-rules.jpg (24.75 KiB) Consulted 2045 times
Do you think that the problem of thawing can also concern other crops such as broad beans? What are your techniques?
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Re: A vegetable meadow?




by Did67 » 10/01/19, 15:59

This is in line with my observation from last year: the tunnels are useful as a forcing tool and very ineffective as a means of combating frost (well, the destruction of vegetables by low temperatures - variable depending on the species!). Glass greenhouses are a bit more efficient.

a) When there are no frosts, essentially in the off-season, the tunnel will heat up during the day; vegetables accelerate their growth...

The tunnel somewhat limits heat radiation through the earth, and can therefore maintain an extra degree or two, which can save a crop when it goes razor-sharp! And this especially if it has been a day. And IF THE GROUND IS BARE!


b) Winter frosts

During a cold period, with little or no insolation, the effectiveness of a plastic tunnel is low. It can be increased by doubling the tarp.

During the frost of April 21 last year, well two years ago, the minimum temperatures recorded in my greenhouse (a tunnel closed at both ends) and outside were very similar. Most of the plants died (-7,5° from memory).


I don't know if the thaw is more dangerous. Agronomically, I've never heard of that. It is possible that due to the ground remaining frozen, and to a beautiful hot and sunny weather, plants are "dried out": the plant loses water in its aerial parts, but these roots, frozen, do not can absorb it. It's quite special.

Spring frosts are quite special because they affect a sensitive part: the flower or the young buds. But the irrigation treatment of flowering fruit trees is known. The water frosts on the plants/flowers, but as long as we bring water, it stays at 0°C battery (another law of physics, which often contradicts beliefs: the man who has wet hands undergoes the cold of the evaporation of water ta a sensation which misleads it - the famous temperatures felt, sometimes quite different from the "thermometric" temperatures). And when during the day it thaws, I've never heard of any problems!
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Adrien (ex-nico239)
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Re: A vegetable meadow?




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 10/01/19, 16:31

Did67 wrote:This is in line with my observation from last year: the tunnels are useful as a forcing tool and very ineffective as a means of combating frost (well, the destruction of vegetables by low temperatures - variable depending on the species!). Glass greenhouses are a bit more efficient.


I still don't have time to make reports worthy of the name but the frames I built (2 layers of greenhouse tarpaulin and 2 of P30) seem very effective: loose soil under the 20cm high one and beans pretty much in good shape in the big 1m tall while it's -10 outside.

Needless to say, outdoor beans have been roasting for a long time.

In the plastic tarpaulin tunnel all the seedlings are covered with P30, like a large snowfield. : Mrgreen:
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Re: A vegetable meadow?




by Did67 » 10/01/19, 16:57

Excellent remark: in frames, the volume of air to be "maintained" is much much lower than in a tunnel, where it escapes upwards... Moreover, they are no doubt also more airtight, with all the those double layers!

I remember ! One of the objectives is precisely to maintain winter crops. I'm not a fan of beans, but that's an indicator. A whole set of winter lettuces and chicory have equivalent resistance to cold, and that really interests me.

Remind me: always walled in straw bales or finally you went into "boards" mode????
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Re: A vegetable meadow?




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 10/01/19, 18:29

Did67 wrote:Excellent remark: in frames, the volume of air to be "maintained" is much much lower than in a tunnel, where it escapes upwards... Moreover, they are no doubt also more airtight, with all the those double layers!

I remember ! One of the objectives is precisely to maintain winter crops. I'm not a fan of beans, but that's an indicator. A whole set of winter lettuces and chicory have equivalent resistance to cold, and that really interests me.

Remind me: always walled in straw bales or finally you went into "boards" mode????



wooden frame

Great
http://potagers.forumactif.com/t83-chas ... assis-haut


The small
http://potagers.forumactif.com/t85-chas ... sis-bas#88
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Re: A vegetable meadow?




by Did67 » 10/01/19, 18:37

Genail!

No mystery: double layers and sealing, little air volume...

If I regain good mobility in my shoulder, I'm going to launch something like this for next winter! And to me the salads galore!!! [salad question, I'm more harmful than an army of slugs! But small nuance: I cultivate them. Not the slugs!]
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Re: A vegetable meadow?




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 10/01/19, 18:57

Did67 wrote:Genail!

No mystery: double layers and sealing, little air volume...

If I regain good mobility in my shoulder, I'm going to launch something like this for next winter! And to me the salads galore!!! [salad question, I'm more harmful than an army of slugs! But small nuance: I cultivate them. Not the slugs!]



This is the question I was asking myself in another topic on the difference between frames and greenhouses...

Thinking about it and with the experience of the tunnel, I told myself that it was not the right/best solution for several reasons.

- Already a tunnel it costs an arm

- And besides, you can't take advantage of the rain.

- Secondo, a bit like a house with a high ceiling you heat the ceiling (I know in my previous house my life changed once I built a mezzanine in a huge empty space in a higher height of 5m.)

- Third, it's “fragile”, and when you have to change the tarpaulin you can feel it.

In addition, you have to REPROTECT with P30 UNDER the greenhouse... pffff in short

The only interest of the tunnel .... for the pros (going through with gear) and protection against hail ...



For us I think that a tunnel has no interest..... apart from having fun or possibly putting fragile trees in it, but that's all.

For the rest of the CUSTOM frames, in my opinion, it's the best.

And Mrs. who loves her greenhouse shares the point of view in particular because it swells her not being able to take advantage of the rain.

But hey at the time when we settled down we didn't have that experience yet.
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Re: A vegetable meadow?




by Did67 » 10/01/19, 19:18

I would be less severe: as said, to "force", for example tomatoes + between a few carrots + a few first lettuces, a row of peas, one or two rows of beans... I find this practical.

And my house being a little further, it is also a shelter for the rain, a place where the first spring suns are enjoyable (while outside, the wind remains cold...)... Etc...

I think both are better!
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