Yellow Vests: Is the call of the November 17 justified? #GiletsJaunes

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Ahmed
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Re: The November 17 call is justified?




by Ahmed » 15/11/18, 12:08

Sen-no-sen, you write:
And there we are always very far from the mark to avoid the worst.

Indeed, the famous "small gestures for the planet" (sic) if they have meaning (ethics) for those who practice them, are insignificant given the scale of the challenges to be met. It is also because of this harmless side that it is encouraged by the media in the service of entropy increase: as long as people can give themselves a clear conscience and be content with it, the "machine" can quietly continue to exert its ravages *.
The worst part is that this strategy of making individuals feel guilty is used to impose changes aimed at intensifying the flow of merchants, via new standards or directives (as in the case of motor cars or "sustainable illusions" : Wink: ).

* Ravage is also the title of a book by René Barjavel...
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Re: The November 17 call is justified?




by Janic » 15/11/18, 13:23

Do you eat soybeans and Jerusalem artichokes rather than meat because it's greener?
damned! Damn it !!! : Twisted:
I do not eat soy, and even less Jerusalem artichoke, despite almost half a century of veganism and I am still in shape! :D
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Re: The November 17 call is justified?




by renaud67 » 15/11/18, 13:48

it can be expected ...
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Re: The November 17 call is justified?




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 15/11/18, 14:00

Ahmed wrote:Sen-no-sen, you write:
And there we are always very far from the mark to avoid the worst.

Indeed, the famous "small gestures for the planet" (sic) if they have meaning (ethics) for those who practice them, are insignificant given the scale of the challenges to be met. It is also because of this harmless side that it is encouraged by the media in the service of entropy increase: as long as people can give themselves a clear conscience and be content with it, the "machine" can quietly continue to exert its ravages *.
The worst part is that this strategy of making individuals feel guilty is used to impose changes aimed at intensifying the flow of merchants, via new standards or directives (as in the case of motor cars or "sustainable illusions" : Wink: ).

* Ravage is also the title of a book by René Barjavel...


Yes, we hide the big social and fiscal fraudsters behind the free riders of the RSA and the mega polluters Total style behind Ms. Michu's log fire ...

We must still welcome a strategy that is still partly profitable and which has paid for decades
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Re: The November 17 call is justified?




by Christophe » 15/11/18, 17:59

Little reminders of a time when there were still GREAT politicians who wanted the GOOD of the people and the GREATNESS of FRANCE and not its destruction ... sorry I said nothing! : Oops:

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Re: The November 17 call is justified?




by Exnihiloest » 15/11/18, 18:48

Christophe wrote:Little reminders of a time when there were still GREAT politicians who wanted the GOOD of the people and the GREATNESS of FRANCE and not its destruction ... sorry I said nothing! : Oops:

I fear that today, the shortcomings of some of our politicians are also the shortcomings of many ordinary citizens, only the greatest power of the first fact that their embezzlement or their lack of ethics has more consequences and is more visible, but the latter are not to be outdone to pollute our existence, if I judge thefts, scams, insurance fraud, moonlighting, homophobic or anti-Semitic comments on social networks. ..
Who remembers the time when losing a wallet or forgetting it on the train, and we found it at lost and found or at the terminal station, and with everything in it? Even today with 2 anti-theft devices you are not sure of finding your bike, or with one less wheel, the one that was not locked. People and elite therefore would be in phase? : Twisted:
The times change, our unscrupulous politicians are unfortunately only the tip of the iceberg of other unscrupulous (fortunately not the majority, well I hope!).
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Re: The November 17 call is justified?




by Exnihiloest » 15/11/18, 18:58

nico239 wrote:
Exnihiloest wrote:...
Do you curdle in your accommodation rather than having 20 °?

I spent long winters at room temperature, about 4 ° below and a dozen in the mezzanine.

Image

I had the stove available, but when you come home at 20 p.m. and go to bed at 23 p.m., you quickly take the flame of making the fire.
A good hot shower, warm clothes and it really wasn't a problem
We also live very well and we feel much fitter when we live in the cold
Then you get used to it and it goes by itself

We are happy for you that you are flourishing at 4 °. For children, the baby is surely the ideal. One wonders why people complained about coal shortages during the occupation.
Me, it's at least 20 °. But you do as you want. And me too.
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Re: The November 17 call is justified?




by Exnihiloest » 15/11/18, 19:04

sen-no-sen wrote:...
No need to heat the entire home to 20C °, one room is enough

Saying that you should eat less is no more utopian than telling an obese person to go on a diet.

But if, to the extent that those to whom you tell are not obese and consume according to their needs and aspirations, which is my case and the case of most people.
This ecological message that you relay is addressed to everyone as if we were all consuming too much, whereas there is no general consensus on this idea that he would like to impose on us. The purpose of this guilt is obviously ideological, but like most people I have no need to live on an ecological sharia.

Useful greening is not asking people to dispense with what they have knowingly chosen, but to win their support by offering something concrete instead, more interesting, cleaner, better , that people will naturally choose.

This is not the case, but then not at all the case today. If political environmentalists, at least in France, have re-elected at each election, it is because there is a reason: their program is zero, and even, negative. Prohibition, taxation, guilt, catastrophism, the promise of planetary destruction if we do not follow them, the denial of the benefits derived from solutions which, moreover, will always pollute more or less, the idea that ecology would be the only finality and would justify all the means whatever the price to pay, are their recurring speeches.

To this is added their dissent between factions which show that their egos take precedence over their cause, and their personal behavior, contrary to their discourse, underlines their lack of ethics. For proof, Mamère affirming that he came by bike to his meeting when we filmed him arriving by car, Hidalgo pronouncing the metro for the others when she uses the car, or Hulot tapping on our "frivolity" when he himself does family walks with a motor boat consuming up to 100l per hour. And it's not just about people.

In ecological matters, their achievements, their personal way of life, their behavior, are close to nothing. Even organic farming is not organic, given the number of chemicals authorized. Personally, I'm not against it, you have to be pragmatic and I still consider it progress. But while the ecologists admit it and say it: yes we can put copper hydroxide or crushed sulfur to grow organic food, yes chemistry is not necessarily useless, yes wandering in a boat is a pleasure and we are going to look for less polluting engines, yes the bicycle is not the palliative of the car ... in short that they are also pragmatic by putting water in their wine to be able to create concrete rather than lessons, sermons and obscurantism.

Ecology is a science, not a policy, it must simply be integrated into politics, it is one parameter among the others. I therefore expect from an ecologist as from anyone else a realistic, reasonable, moderate discourse, in phase with the realities of life in general, not only with those of their only hobby. But from their ranks I especially hear their tartuffes, their political manipulators, generally from the far left, their preachers and their fundamentalists.
Never thus will they win membership, and in addition they will develop in reaction an extremism opposed to theirs, which will be counterproductive for ecology.

This is why you do not have to say that we must consume less, like Hulot reproaching us for our frivolities, unless your message is indeed only political with an ideological concern anti-capitalist or anti-growth, and ecology a pretext .
Ecology is the preferred means to be able to consume according to your desires while minimizing the impact. If consuming less was the solution, then we wouldn't even need an ecologist or an ecologist, it's the same basic level as saying that by reducing the number of km traveled by car we reduce accidents!
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Re: The November 17 call is justified?




by Did67 » 15/11/18, 19:11

Exnihiloest wrote:
Christophe wrote:Little reminders of a time when there were still GREAT politicians who wanted the GOOD of the people and the GREATNESS of FRANCE and not its destruction ... sorry I said nothing! : Oops:

I fear that today, the shortcomings of some of our politicians are also the shortcomings of many ordinary citizens, only the greatest power of the first fact that their embezzlement or their lack of ethics has more consequences and is more visible, but the latter are not to be outdone to pollute our existence, if I judge thefts, scams, insurance fraud, moonlighting, homophobic or anti-Semitic comments on social networks. ..
Who remembers the time when losing a wallet or forgetting it on the train, and we found it at lost and found or at the terminal station, and with everything in it? Even today with 2 anti-theft devices you are not sure of finding your bike, or with one less wheel, the one that was not locked. People and elite therefore would be in phase? : Twisted:
The times change, our unscrupulous politicians are unfortunately only the tip of the iceberg of other unscrupulous (fortunately not the majority, well I hope!).


Excellent remark ...

We could add the shattered bus shelters - hard to say that it's a fed up face with too many taxes, since it is precisely the taxes that go up in smoke! And that maintenance / repair will cost ...
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Re: The November 17 call is justified?




by sen-no-sen » 15/11/18, 19:16

Exnihiloest wrote:(...) but the second are not to be outdone to pollute our existence, if I judge thefts, scams, insurance fraud, moonlighting, homophobic or anti-Semitic comments about social networks ...


All this is perfectly "normal" given the period we are going through.

People and elite therefore would be in phase?

It is excessive to speak of people, an ideological connotation term which would induce a very high level of cohesion, the concept of population seems to me to be more appropriate.
For the rest it is quite obvious that the "elites" are the reflection of the said populations, and those despite the differences displayed in terms of ideological vision.
As noted in his day Gustave Lebon, the behavior of individuals in groups often induces the production of a thought that breaks with the vision of a person taken in isolation.
I may be shocked but I think that our current president unconsciously corresponds to the desire of the crowds, despite the 18% of direct vote in his favor.
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