Are my windows sieves?

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
LOGIC12
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by LOGIC12 » 21/02/18, 03:02

hello, You should definitely consider VMC DF, especially since the house has large volumes.

And a stove goes well with an AIR / AIR heat pump, it can be used to better distribute the heat.

If you are a good handyman, you could install the VMC DF yourself, there are tutorials on youtube,




Put photos of your air intakes on roller shutters as well as your windows.

In the case of a Double Flow CMV, these air inlets become useless and they are blocked since the preheated fresh air is brought into each bedroom and into the living room.
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nono187
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by nono187 » 21/02/18, 08:48

Thank you for the video it is true that it is interesting the VMC DF, to see the cost I would make a quote, I am not a too bad handyman but that I prefer to install, with the risk of fire if the vmc is badly posed ..

Here are some pictures of the bays and shutter boxes with air intake.
You also see the open staircase on the right near the bay, and on its left a radiator (I have 3 big ones like that)
Attachments
P_20180221_082725.jpg
P_20180221_082645.jpg
P_20180221_082625.jpg
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LOGIC12
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Registration: 28/01/08, 05:41
Location: twelve o'clock Pyrenees
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by LOGIC12 » 21/02/18, 11:32

hello, I see these air intakes on the trunk of the roller shutter.

You could take inspiration from this video to improve a little:



I did the same thing in a rental unit, because the tenants complained that they were cold.

You could do something long enough and put two baffles on each side. Try to do this at least 80 cm long.

Remove at least 3 existing holes on each side, and add them in the center or make an opening between 3 or 4 holes in the middle and that's it. The air will pass into the box and will tend to heat up a bit. (this while waiting for better).

*** The air would have to come out behind the curtain, so it mixes with the ambient air behind and you avoid the feeling of draft.

Your windows don't look so old. It must be said that aluminum windows, even those currently coming out have a cold contact due to the materials: aluminum.
By their design: sliding seal on the rail, the seal is less effective than conventional openers, which is made of PVC which is not a cold material. But hey, it's more practical and more aesthetic. And there is not much to gain.
You should know that the heat rushes to the cooler parts where the utility of the curtains to thwart this exchange. This is what I did at home. My bay windows which are only 4 years old are very similar to yours, and despite this: thermal break, contact with the aluminum is cold.

It's like if you have a tiled floor, when you walk barefoot, you're cold, on the other hand if on the floor, there is carpet next to it, the latter is at the same temperature, and you don't feel cold: it comes from the nature of the materials.

To improve the sealing of sliding glass doors, you can take inspiration from this video. I did it at home and it's quite effective.



Attention, to make a notch for the flow of water, and make it a little more important on the side where the wind throws the rain (in the east in principle).

You can also put the joint vertically on each side. It is very easy to do and very inexpensive.

Your floor is tiled, many people put floating floors to cut the cold and to have more comfort at least in one part of the house. As it is not cold, it does not capture the calories from heating. especially with electric heating. others put PVC coating that we simply put with a little double sided on the edges, there too it cuts the cold.

Perhaps you could put an aesthetic curtain against the open staircase for the winter to limit the flow of heat. Take a test by joining well at the top for at least two days to see what it looks like.

Otherwise if you are going to see an electrician for a double flow, tell him that you want something correct, but not too expensive, that you are limited and that you may be forced to resell in a few years (even if it doesn’t is not true), so you want something not too ruinous. So it could slow the addition. Otherwise it risks being full pot.

That's a whole bunch of suggestions
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SixK
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by SixK » 22/02/18, 21:02

Something tells me that we have a fairly similar house in concept.

Some little tips that do not cost too much to improve comfort.

Good already the holes in the trunk, it's not great, personally I would fill up + 1 paint stroke,
then hole forwards (and not below as currently) + humidity-sensitive mouth.
The principle of the air vents on the shutters of the shutters is to blow towards the ceiling where the heat is to heat the incoming air.
Mouth hygro not too ugly it is about 40 euro. Provide a small adjustment after installation so that the mouth is practically closed when there is no humidity in the room.

Clogging of air passages wherever possible. In particular the rafters which go up in the roof spaces if they are visible.
Electrical outlets if there are air passages at this level. Electric conduits. Wherever there is air to infiltrate when it is not planned at the base.
A cartridge of acrylic seal at 10 euro should allow to go around the air passages of the house. (avoid silicone for this kind of thing)

If there is an attached garage with a door that is not too insulated, at least you have to put a rubber 'squeegee' at the bottom to improve the seal. Possibly rubber seals to seal the door. For 30/40 Euro there must be a way to do something. If in addition there is a garage door on rail, the ideal is to pass on a tilting or roll-up door with very little air passage.
In case it is not possible to change the door, at least it is possible to screw a rail with long bristles to limit the air passages under the garage door.
It costs around 25 euro for the 2,5m rail.

In the things that cost a little more,
it is possible to install an electric heating control system, just to heat more during off-peak hours (if you have this type of package) and avoid heating when you are not present. There are Delta-Gold Kits at 200 or 300 euro the central unit + pack of 6 receivers for example. I quote delta-dore because this is what I put at home and that we find quite easily. It's a bit expensive, but the X2D modules are hacked with a little hardware and computer knowledge.
It allows me to manage the heating schedule with an Excel file or from my smartphone. (but you still have to know a little)
There are more open solutions too.
Hopefully a gain of around 15% on the electricity bill with such a system. (I don't have too much reference, because the former owner had transferred his heaters for at least 10 years !! but I made 200 euros less than what EDF estimated the 1st year).

The heaters if they are toasted bread in the old way, do not hesitate to change them by a model which accumulates a minimum of heat.

In the attic, in 86 they put at best 2x10 cm of glass wool. Whereas now it would be 2x20.
A little tour in the attic to see how it is done. If like at home, the glass wool was placed on the joists, it leaves a void of 17cm in height between the joists, there is a way to fill this void with 20 cm of glass wool.
To insulate the roof spaces between joists had to cost me a dozen rolls at 10 euros + 30 glass wool knife.
In short it does not cost too much, on the other hand to ask or even, it's 1 week of hell in the dust of glass wool with the desire to stop everything the 1st hour! ;)

The roof hatch does not hurt to isolate it a bit as well.
A glued expanded or extruded polystyrene square will already do the trick. Less than 10 euros.

Rooms above an uninsulated garage, do not hesitate to stick insulation.
Preferably extruded polystyrene, bonded with MAP. Less than 10 euros per square meter.


If you have Velux and they are vintage, they are probably dead. Do not hesitate to change them and above all put on exterior rolling shutters. Besides, in general, you have to put roller shutters on each window.
Clearly, without the shutters you can feel the difference in the evening! ;)
Of course, it costs a little;)

Here are some tips that will help improve comfort and the electricity bill.
Otherwise I have one last, Pullover and blankets ...;)

Without wanting to demoralize you, I think you will always feel cold at the table while being under the stairwell.

SixK
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Optimists invented airplanes, parachutes pessimistic. George Bernard Shaw.
Thought personal, I understand better why the big bosses invented the golden parachute.
LOGIC12
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posts: 116
Registration: 28/01/08, 05:41
Location: twelve o'clock Pyrenees
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by LOGIC12 » 23/02/18, 03:43

hello, The big holes made above the bay must have been done "hard" before the sale of the house, because there was no ventilation when there should have been one. And with all that chill going down right in front of the window, it sure must be looking even colder.

If we block and put an air inlet vertically on the roller shutter box, the window may condense, so it would be better to slow the air but leave it in front of the window to avoid any risk of condensation. In addition, the air renewal taking place behind the curtain, it eliminates any problem of discomfort.

E the system indicated above has proven itself, the air is slowed down and tends to preheat slightly, the air intake being offset.

An AIR / AIR heat pump, just for the lower rooms, would have the merit of completing the work of the VMC by removing all possible traces of condensation.

And dividing the heating bill by at least 3 if not 4 is very satisfactory.

For the top, which heats almost alone with the hot air rising from below. The radiators are kept to supplement a few degrees if necessary in the bedrooms at night.

And in a house you must always check the humidity at several points in the house, be careful when cooking not to produce too much steam (cover the pots, otherwise the steam "spreads" in the house and the humidity increases. Ditto, when showering, keep the door closed, even after showering for at least 2 hours, otherwise the steam is spread and the humidity level is increased, which increases the need for air renewal. If the bathroom has a window, we can open it for a few minutes to let off the bulk of the steam, and the CMV will continue to work. We can put it on high speed for a while so that the humidity returns to normal.

The hygro air inlets, when you see how it is made ... it works as it can, and personally I hardly believe it.

As for the current hygro CMVs, they draw a lot (people complain about it in a new house) and they are at single speed, only the air inlets are supposed to slow the flow, and in a very tight new house, some complain of 'wheeze. So no rush.
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nono187
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Registration: 17/02/18, 08:46

Re: Are my windows colanders?




by nono187 » 23/02/18, 13:39

SixK wrote:Something tells me that we have a fairly similar house in concept.

Some little tips that do not cost too much to improve comfort.

Good already the holes in the trunk, it's not great, personally I would fill up + 1 paint stroke,
then hole forwards (and not below as currently) + humidity-sensitive mouth.
The principle of the air vents on the shutters of the shutters is to blow towards the ceiling where the heat is to heat the incoming air.
Mouth hygro not too ugly it is about 40 euro. Provide a small adjustment after installation so that the mouth is practically closed when there is no humidity in the room.

Clogging of air passages wherever possible. In particular the rafters which go up in the roof spaces if they are visible.
Electrical outlets if there are air passages at this level. Electric conduits. Wherever there is air to infiltrate when it is not planned at the base.
A cartridge of acrylic seal at 10 euro should allow to go around the air passages of the house. (avoid silicone for this kind of thing)

If there is an attached garage with a door that is not too insulated, at least you have to put a rubber 'squeegee' at the bottom to improve the seal. Possibly rubber seals to seal the door. For 30/40 Euro there must be a way to do something. If in addition there is a garage door on rail, the ideal is to pass on a tilting or roll-up door with very little air passage.
In case it is not possible to change the door, at least it is possible to screw a rail with long bristles to limit the air passages under the garage door.
It costs around 25 euro for the 2,5m rail.

In the things that cost a little more,
it is possible to install an electric heating control system, just to heat more during off-peak hours (if you have this type of package) and avoid heating when you are not present. There are Delta-Gold Kits at 200 or 300 euro the central unit + pack of 6 receivers for example. I quote delta-dore because this is what I put at home and that we find quite easily. It's a bit expensive, but the X2D modules are hacked with a little hardware and computer knowledge.
It allows me to manage the heating schedule with an Excel file or from my smartphone. (but you still have to know a little)
There are more open solutions too.
Hopefully a gain of around 15% on the electricity bill with such a system. (I don't have too much reference, because the former owner had transferred his heaters for at least 10 years !! but I made 200 euros less than what EDF estimated the 1st year).

The heaters if they are toasted bread in the old way, do not hesitate to change them by a model which accumulates a minimum of heat.

In the attic, in 86 they put at best 2x10 cm of glass wool. Whereas now it would be 2x20.
A little tour in the attic to see how it is done. If like at home, the glass wool was placed on the joists, it leaves a void of 17cm in height between the joists, there is a way to fill this void with 20 cm of glass wool.
To insulate the roof spaces between joists had to cost me a dozen rolls at 10 euros + 30 glass wool knife.
In short it does not cost too much, on the other hand to ask or even, it's 1 week of hell in the dust of glass wool with the desire to stop everything the 1st hour! ;)

The roof hatch does not hurt to isolate it a bit as well.
A glued expanded or extruded polystyrene square will already do the trick. Less than 10 euros.

Rooms above an uninsulated garage, do not hesitate to stick insulation.
Preferably extruded polystyrene, bonded with MAP. Less than 10 euros per square meter.


If you have Velux and they are vintage, they are probably dead. Do not hesitate to change them and above all put on exterior rolling shutters. Besides, in general, you have to put roller shutters on each window.
Clearly, without the shutters you can feel the difference in the evening! ;)
Of course, it costs a little;)

Here are some tips that will help improve comfort and the electricity bill.
Otherwise I have one last, Pullover and blankets ...;)

Without wanting to demoralize you, I think you will always feel cold at the table while being under the stairwell.

SixK


Hello and thank you

actually I am going to plug and put adjustable hygro bars I have already been advised and if we can regulate the cold air that comes in a bit cool, by cons LOGIC12 solution even if effective, madam and I even find not very aesthetic, already that our shutter boxes are large. I also have 3 air intakes in the living room, two is it enough?

I already bought a squeegee to cut the cold air that goes under the kitchen door overlooking the laundry room. I will install it this afternoon.
The garage door is good, it is recent and electric, fits on the side.

I will continue my chase in the air.

We are going to see a stove specialist this morning (Asgard), we are thinking of leaving on a Contura wood stove efficiency 86% 3 at 9kw with olivine stone to keep warm for a few hours when the stove is off. We already had a CONTURA in an old house and we were really in love with this stove ...
Wood is more restrictive, especially for madam, but the diffused heat is so pleasant unlike a pellet.

When our velux al floor, yes they are to change, it will not be for now but that of the mezzanine must really heat the birds, in the bedroom of my son I put an ikea store http://www.ikea.com/fr/fr/catalog/products/50336892/
I find it really not bad to cut the falling cold. 8)

When at the vmc I hope that it is not she who pumps death from the electricity.
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SixK
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by SixK » 24/02/18, 20:52

On Velux, the interior blind insulates a little, but with a big defect, it keeps the humidity on the window and causes the wood to rot.
If you don't have any humidity on the window in the morning, you may not have more than before,
but if you already have it it will not work out, not to mention mold ...
An external roller shutter, from my point of view is essential on a Velux.
Last point on the Velux, we have comfort glass, but I think it's a shame, it cuts the solar gain.
Better standard glasses I think (well at least in Brittany).


If you change the insert / wood stove, look at the BBC models, the advantage is that these models take all their air outside, not in the house. Heating with something that draws a lot of air into the house, I find it a shame. (unfortunately that's what I have)
Anyway, at least you need an outside air intake.
With a BBC model, you can even close all the air intakes on the trunks (or at least a large part, it is still necessary that the VMC can suck).

Speaking of air intakes, 3 points on the ground floor, it seems a lot, but I have no knowledge in the field.
Just if like at home, you have air inlets in 2 "opposite" windows, as soon as there is wind, it's drafty ...
So if you close an air intake, perhaps prefer the one that is opposite the other 2.
Monitor the humidity before and after filling as well.

Finally if there are 3 air inlets, it may be that the chimney could not function properly with the VMC.
With us, we have the possibility of cutting the CMV, so it allows you to start the insert without it smoking too much in the house.
Just be careful, a 1986 VMC doesn't really like being stopped.

SixK
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Optimists invented airplanes, parachutes pessimistic. George Bernard Shaw.

Thought personal, I understand better why the big bosses invented the golden parachute.
nono187
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I discovered econologic
posts: 7
Registration: 17/02/18, 08:46

Re: Are my windows colanders?




by nono187 » 25/02/18, 09:06

SixK wrote:On Velux, the interior blind insulates a little, but with a big defect, it keeps the humidity on the window and causes the wood to rot.
If you don't have any humidity on the window in the morning, you may not have more than before,
but if you already have it it will not work out, not to mention mold ...
An external roller shutter, from my point of view is essential on a Velux.
Last point on the Velux, we have comfort glass, but I think it's a shame, it cuts the solar gain.
Better standard glasses I think (well at least in Brittany).


If you change the insert / wood stove, look at the BBC models, the advantage is that these models take all their air outside, not in the house. Heating with something that draws a lot of air into the house, I find it a shame. (unfortunately that's what I have)
Anyway, at least you need an outside air intake.
With a BBC model, you can even close all the air intakes on the trunks (or at least a large part, it is still necessary that the VMC can suck).

Speaking of air intakes, 3 points on the ground floor, it seems a lot, but I have no knowledge in the field.
Just if like at home, you have air inlets in 2 "opposite" windows, as soon as there is wind, it's drafty ...
So if you close an air intake, perhaps prefer the one that is opposite the other 2.
Monitor the humidity before and after filling as well.

Finally if there are 3 air inlets, it may be that the chimney could not function properly with the VMC.
With us, we have the possibility of cutting the CMV, so it allows you to start the insert without it smoking too much in the house.
Just be careful, a 1986 VMC doesn't really like being stopped.

SixK


Velux does not look damp.

I'm going to plug the opposite air inlet, leaving only two. Our VMC also cuts off if necessary. Even if I have the impression that cutting it no longer really cuts it since I changed the switch .. well, I'm not going to cut it anyway. But both gears work well.

The stove will take the outside air behind it (which the chimney is currently doing too).

In addition under the window (Photo) I noticed that it is very cold about 10 cm, I took the temperature with infrared thermo, 12 ° while 18 ° lower. It is a defect of insulation surely, is there a technique to insulate a little?
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LOGIC12
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Registration: 28/01/08, 05:41
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by LOGIC12 » 07/03/18, 18:34

hello, If it was me, I will leave the CMV that there is making sure that it is at low speed, except when we take the shower, and during the monk a good hour put it at high speed, and come back a little speed then.

The Hygro CMVs, when it is humid, and more particularly when they are not heating, they run at full speed without stopping and even all night and there is nothing we can do.

Or go directly to double flow.

Under the window it's 12 ° you mean on the aluminum frame? This is due to the lack of thermal break and also to the aluminum which is a cold material. A good thin curtain but double fabric that descends at least a little lower, will obstruct the heat that goes automatically on the cold parts. And at night close the shutters.

Better to invest in a VMC DF than in windows.
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