Should I stop heating myself with gas?

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kevinburgerking
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Should I stop heating myself with gas?




by kevinburgerking » 17/08/17, 15:28

First of all, hello to all.

I come to you because I wonder about fossil energy for a while and I suppose that many here will answer very easily to my questions.

This is what is happening. Since these last, I try to be always more "one" with nature and at the same time to be more and more energetically autonomous. Because I believe it is related. A return to nature is a return to the sources, and therefore to independence from the diktats of modern consumer society.

One of the basic needs of man is to heat himself. However, it turns out that I am still subject to gas and that I think for a long time to go solar. But I do not know anything about it, and I'm suspicious of commercials.

A heating technician from Seraing (my region) is so spend yesterday at home to help me out (I put in link as it is good, understanding, open to dialogue and nice) my gas boiler. When it was over, we sat down and talked. I told him about my projects, he listened, carefully, without interrupting me ..

When it was his turn to speak, he explained to me that he did not know much about solar energy either, that it was not his job because he specialized in gas and oil. He invited me to learn, he was honest. However, he reminded me of some fundamentals on gas. Things I did not know

First, gas is a low polluting energy, compared to the rest. Secondly, it is economical. Third, it is powerful and reliable.

All these explanations have made me mixed. I do not know where I am in relation to heating, I do not know what to do. I need caloric energy to heat me, but if I weigh the pros and cons, is the solar already worth investing in gas? I do not know, do you?

Thanks for your help ...
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Re: Should I stop heating myself with gas?




by sicetaitsimple » 17/08/17, 20:08

kevinburgerking wrote: Is solar energy worth investing in gas? I do not know, do you?



Just a very general remark, not wanting to discourage you: the conversion of an existing home heated gas (or fuel) to solar heating (or mostly solar) is a complex operation, expensive and I often think disappointing.

A solar habitat is a whole, a whole, essentially passive (orientation, insulation, glass roofs, "Trombe" storage walls, ...).

It is better, from my point of view, to devote your available means or time to isolation work. Of course, it is less pure, you remain dependent on a fossil fuel, but you consume less ..

Or, if it's possible in your case, think wood?
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Re: Should I stop heating myself with gas?




by Did67 » 19/08/17, 10:17

I would add:

a) It depends on the place and the climate, even micro-climate (a solar system is very sensitive to fog stagnant in some valleys) ...

b) I, more than 15 years ago, in Alsace, installed a solar water heater; I have not experienced any incident, so no additional cost; it will therefore end up being "amortized" (the term is incorrect; I will end up "recovering the money put in the investment through savings").

c) 100% agree with sicaitsimple: no chance of being able to heat a house not "designed for" by solar; at most, additional solar equipment can make a contribution to heating - and not that important. Unfortunately, when we need heating, the sun is often absent for several days in a row; for some, in "foggy corners", even in good weather, it does not emerge until 13 pm to go to bed at 16 pm and the rest of the time, it is quite low ... It is therefore a law physical and meteorological!

The house "designed for" would be a passive house, which recovers the slightest calories released by the occupants and their devices and "heats" a part with that ... It has a cost ...

d) The gas is indeed, among the fossil energies, the "less worse" because it has the cleanest combustion ... With low temperature circuits, it optimizes the condensation ... But we must not omit this small nuance: "among fossil fuels". Or do in Trumpism: "there is no global warming" - just fire all the researchers who show the opposite!

Gas remains a fossil fuel that contributes to global warming ... about as much as fuel oil.

e) For this reason, I opted for a pellet boiler soon 10 years (we will celebrate the birthday in January 2018). Combustion slightly cleaner than gas (it's a solid!). But almost neutral in CO² of fossil origin. It costs an arm, if you want a fully automatic system, which is my case (about 15 000 euros boiler installed plus pellet silo). Compared to the oil boiler that I had and I bazardée, I have not yet recovered the bet! The fuel oil is not expensive enough compared to the forecasts I made.

[NB: there are more "rustic", semi-automatic boilers which cost much less; but you have to take care of it almost every day - refill a pellet tank, manually clean the exchangers with a lever, etc. ... Not at all prohibitive when you are young and in good health].

f) I still ride in a conventional vehicle, so I have two COXNUMX "chasms" of fossil origin : vehicles and ... the gray energy of all that I consume... It's crazy how the latter, we forget ... We are all quick to see the question of the solar water heater (me the first!) And "hide" the question of our daily consumption and its deplorable energy balance!

g) If you think globally for your household, you include the gray energies contained in everything you consume (the computer, clothes, food, meat, etc ...), you will quickly realize that heating is just the tip of the energy iceberg. This is not at all the way to take the cabbage. Apart from, as said by sicaitsimple, well insulate. The only investment in "heating" doubly profitable: reduction of your annual bill + increase in the value of your house (it is also the only "investment" that does not wear out - if well done; your solar system will be " dead "in 20 years, my boiler too; good insulation will always be in the value of your house !).

This is of course only an opinion. Mine.
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Re: Should I stop heating myself with gas?




by lilian07 » 19/08/17, 10:26

Hello,
I am the opinion of experts that your heating should be kept keeping in mind that you should rather make a good record of insulation and launch a real project of insulation to make your boiler highly efficient (low temperature, very low) consumption which is the least worst fossil fuel ....)
Good study and good project.
For solar it is better to think in a second time to the photovoltaic panel and eventually self-construction thermal panel for domestic hot water.
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Re: Should I stop heating myself with gas?




by Did67 » 19/08/17, 11:45

I confirm for the self-construction of thermal solar panels. A "good handyman" friend has in fact with mainly recycled materials, frames covered with some kind of plastic and all summer, it works ... thunder! [In summer, a sophisticated system is overpowering and it is useless; in winter, it is insufficient and is of little use! Finally, a DIY system that achieves only 80% of the efficiency of a sophisticated system produces almost as much].
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Re: Should I stop heating myself with gas?




by sicetaitsimple » 19/08/17, 13:19

We must not forget that indeed, beyond the intrinsic performance of the capture system, there is a data to which we can not do much: it is that, in our latitudes, the duration of the day, so sunshine potential (after, the weather conditions are favorable or not) varies from about 8h in December to about 16h in June.
In Ecuador of course, it's more regular! Moreover in Ecuador we rarely need heating. The world is badly done!
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Re: Should I stop heating myself with gas?




by Did67 » 19/08/17, 13:50

sicetaitsimple wrote:
in our latitudes, the duration of the day, so of potential sunshine (after, the weather conditions are favorable or not) varies from 8h approximately in December ...


... a good part with an unfavorable incidence (sun shaving morning and evening)!
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Re: Should I stop heating myself with gas?




by sicetaitsimple » 19/08/17, 14:21

Did67 wrote:
... a good part with an unfavorable incidence (sun shaving morning and evening)!


You are right, but I did not mention it because in the limit it can in certain cases be optimized by adjusting the inclination of the panels (if they are installed on a roof terrace or on the ground for example). By degrading the "excess" summer performance to favor that of mid-season and winter. But here we are in "fine tuning", without constraints. If it is on your roof that you install them, it is normally the slope of the roof that you will respect.
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Re: Should I stop heating myself with gas?




by Did67 » 19/08/17, 15:26

To quibble (you know me !!!): for the vertical angle of incidence, yes.

My panels are 45 °, so yes, the incidence is not perpendicular in summer. But enough is enough! It is better in winter.

But I was talking about the lateral incidence: whatever you do, with a fixed system (I'm not talking about "trackers", rather used for photovoltaics), the sun is very lateral in the morning and in the evening ... So the system does not function properly over the entire period of sunlight, far from it. Its azimuth also makes the sun less bright ... It crosses a much thicker layer of the atmosphere.

Anyway, we agree: it's not optimal at all, but then not at all, when we need it most! So if the summer, we can dab (and pass a difficult course of 2 or 3 days without sun), the winter, it is wasted effort, beyond a daily cycle ... There will be no never enough to heat and "fill the buffer" at the same time ...

But hey, I'm going to quibble about it. I think I drank our friend who did well to question before doing (unlike others ...).
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Re: Should I stop heating myself with gas?




by sicetaitsimple » 19/08/17, 15:33

Complement: to illustrate I would cite the case the largest photovoltaic power plant in France, that of Cestas, near Bordeaux. 300MWc anyway!
This one is oriented East-West, and not South like most of its congeners. Not really for reasons of optimization of the production, but for reasons of optimization of the occupied space. No shadows with East-West, while in the South direction, without trackers that rotate the panels throughout the day there should be open spaces between the rows of panels.

The result is a production that starts a little earlier and a little stronger in the morning, the same in the evening it ends a little later and a little stronger, to the detriment of production in the middle of the day.

It is just to illustrate that the "yield" of a solar installation is optimized, it has not much to do I recognize with the initial question. And that we have to think in "value", not necessarily in "production". Too much hot water in the middle of summer is of no value.

Edit: crossed posts with Didier .... Written before having read his.
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