Group purchasing power

[Angelic]

Hello, I am an active activist for a better thought. I've been learning about green energy since 5 or 6 years ago to see if I could do something at my individual scale, if I could really change our consumption.
I firmly believe that a person who acts + a person who acts + a person who acts + >>>> a lot of big changes

So I started by subscribing to an offer that promised at least 15% green energy, but it was relatively expensive

and then I came across a proposal to buy green energy 100% but I wondered if this thing really market? (It's a bit of a rip-off to the consumer)

And then I came across an article http://www.fournisseur-energie.com/blog ... -illusion/

Who says that group buying is good but financially it's not worth it

Should see so. I would like to know what I think

If I subscribe (knowing that I can end up with a cheaper but not green offer, or with doubtful renewal)

I do not know so much.

Need your advice

Thank you in advance

Angelic

[Christophe]

Not reading the article in detail, I flew over and this seems relevant to me as analysis

If you are militant, take a contract at Enercoop ... then you'll be sure it's green 100% and not gray (fossil) or green fluo (nuclear) repainted in green ...

To do so with your eyes closed! It will be a bit more expensive than at EdF and consors but that will be a good reason to save more electricity ...

So electricity 100% green + electricity savings = at all good!

[Angelic]

Thank you Christophe for the speed of your answer :-)

Enercoop you say? So no group purchases.

I will inquire about this.

Thank you very much in any case, I will come back if I have other questions !!!

[Ahmed]

Angelism is always dangerous: is not it said that hell is paved with good intentions?
Reducing its consumption and paying for more expensive electricity is a sincere step and one based on honorable sentiments, but it goes in a direction that is very much in line with the market system in its current phase of postmodernity. For a long time and probably still in many fields, the accumulation of abstract value proceeded by the quantitative deployment of ever more goods; today, we are at a turning point which sees the beginning of a new era in which the production of goods begins to meet physical limits and the near future (when it is not already a reality) consists in no longer to coexist material growth and growth of value. As the goal of physical growth has always been that of abstract valuethere is a good way to temporarily push back the collapse, at least as far as external limits are concerned ...
We must never forget that capitalism has been practicing dialectics since its origin, though in an unconscious way, and it willingly uses the weapons that are opposed to it to return them to its advantage which will hardly be glorious for the gogos who are quite naive or ignorant to believe that ecology could coexist with him.
The great asset of capitalism is that as a system, it does not need to be intelligent to find, by trial and error, each time the best possible solution, without its supporters as well as its opponents understand anything about it * ...

Of course, this solution, as long as it exists, will never be more than the fact of the unconscious agents of the system.

[Did67]

Always first ask yourself what you want ... Because there, you seem to "mix" several issues: on the one hand "green electricity", on the other hand buy cheaper via a group purchase .. .

It seems to me that the first thing to do, when you "want to do something", is to start reducing your consumption. In half a dozen years, I reduced ours by about 1/3.

Green electricity sold by the majority of operators is a sleight of hand. Take the supplier X. It produces nuclear, hydraulic, solar, wind, all mixed in the same cables. This is called the mix.

I, lambda, buy "normal" electricity from X, at such a price: I therefore consume a little of everything, in the proportion where X produces it. For demonstration purposes, let's say that out of 100 kWH, 50 are nuclear, 20 hydraulic, 10 wind, 5 solar and 15 thermal (coal, gas).

But now, X is smart. It offers green electricity, more expensive, to some. And some think it's okay to "do something". So X sells them the 20 hydraulic kWh, the 10 wind turbines and the 5 "guaranteed green" solar, more expensive ... Even if lambda was going to consume them anyway!

The beta that have subscribed will therefore receive completely "theoretically", since in the cables everything is mixed, these 35 kWh green, more expensive.

And me, the lambda, I would receive just as theoretically what is left, the 65 kWh nuclear and thermal, at the usual rate.

No cheating: the authority checks that an operator injects as much renewable energy as it sells "green" electricity. But as the large suppliers necessarily have renewable sources in their mix (dams, photovoltaics that they are obliged to buy), initially, this does not change anything. They just sell that share of electricity better!

But no change at the country level, in the short term. Just a sleight of hand. In short, "green" marketing.

In the long term, if the demand is high, so if the beta increases, it will however require X to invest in renewable, to meet the demand when it exceeds its capacity of green electricity production. So I do not criticize fundamentally, nor totally. I'm just saying: not sure that it changes much at first ...

Another thing is the use of a "pure player" in renewable energy. There, the incidence will be rapid. Because if he can buy a certain quantity of “renewable” on the wholesale market, he will have to be concerned about an increase in renewable production fairly quickly ... and invest in this area.

Finally, since Enercoop is a cooperative, it is fundamental to group buying, by definition of a cooperative.

When it comes to "being green", you have to be very careful not to just be the victim of green marketing, of "greenwashing". Always act first by reducing / adapting your consumption. I'd rather someone who bother to air dry their laundry than someone who has a dryer and makes good conscience by buying green electricity to run it.

That's just my opinion.

[Grelinette]

Thank you Did67 for these clear explanations!

It seems logical that in the cables that carry the current from the producer to the consumer, everything is mixed.

In fact, the quantities of current available at the outlet, according to their origin (nuclear, hydraulic, wind, solar, coal, gas), are virtual.

To give an image, it is as if on the one hand all the producers poured their bulk production into the network, and on the other hand, at the end of the network, the piping in sum, the consumers consumed this mixture, ERDF (now Enedis) is only the network manager.

As Did underlines, it is to be hoped that the figures announced by the supervisory authority on the share of each origin are correct, and that the operator who resells a volume of "organic current" has this volume available "in stock. "(in his accounts).

According to Wiki, in 2010 the distribution according to the origin of the current is as follows:

Thermal energy: 12 740 TWh, ie 68%;
Hydraulic power: 2 999 TWh, ie 16%;
Nuclear energy: 2 593 TWh, ie 14%;
Renewable energies excluding hydraulics: 474 TWh, ie 2%.

Are there more recent figures?

Addition: I just found this site which gives in real time the distribution of the current of the French network according to its origin.
Curious to see that the production from the solar is so low and starts only in the morning ...

[chatelot16]

I am surprised that no one is trying to sell it: a green electricity filter! it is connected between the meter and the house and it lets only the electron of photovoltaic or other renewable origin and it blocks the electron of nuclear origin ... this kind of filter would be easy to achieve and no one could verify effectiveness

more seriously the way to promote renewable energy would be to create an electricity sales company that offers a real-time vareible rate depending on the availability of renewable energy ... to encourage customers to put automation to consume the right moment