Micro-supercapacitors: Capacity x1000

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izentrop
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by izentrop » 13/11/15, 12:53

Surivai wrote:an 2,8V / 30 000 farads supercapacitor in nano-hybrid graphene with an energy density of 21 Wh / kg and a power density of 2 kW / kg.
And the search is progressing well
"83 Wh / Kg (compared to 100 to 200 Wh / kg for Lithium-Ion batteries) and which can be recharged in just 16 seconds." http://www.supercondensateur.com/supercondensateur-graphene-haute-densite-rechargeable-en-16-secondes . It's dated 2013 but hey!
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by Obamot » 13/11/15, 12:56

1) we are talking about products already on the market (for my part)
2) 2013 is already completely exceeded in performance no? (In 1 months and a half it will already be 3 years ...)
3) is the site that we can not stop mentioning when we talk about supercapacitors, it would be good to publish other sources!

Here complete CNRS file: "Superstar graphene"
https://lejournal.cnrs.fr/articles/le-g ... -episode-1
https://lejournal.cnrs.fr/articles/le-g ... -episode-2
https://lejournal.cnrs.fr/articles/le-g ... -episode-3
https://lejournal.cnrs.fr/articles/le-g ... -episode-4

Surivai wrote:
All I know is that R&D is stuck on this dielectric issue


Do you have a link to an article explaining this blocking at the dielectric?

In any case, this "blocking" does not prevent the creation of 2,85V supercapacitors and does not prevent the creation of buses supplied exclusively by supercapacitors.

jean.caissepas gave two other examples of graphene supercapacitors:
http://www.supercondensateur.com/superc ... e-in-china

With a 3V / 12 000 Farads supercapacitor with graphene composite electrodes and activated carbon.

And a supercapacitor 2,8V / 30 000 farads nano-graphene hybrid with an energy density of 21 Wh / kg and a power density of 2 kW / kg.

So, yes, there is still some progress to be made, especially with regard to increasing the energy density, but supercapacitors are already operational.

In this case, it's not graphene, I'm only talking about graphene.


Have you read what I wrote before? If so, tell me what you have smoked.

But how can one compare the VS ultracapacitor lithium batteries to graphene until the dielectric problem of the graphene has been solved.


There is no dielectric problem, except to improve the performance even further ...

I do not think I was aggressive on the contrary! Good luck.

I give you the link in MP, firstly because they are not very versed "green" on the one hand, and on the other hand so as not to advertise them!

You will find the arguments that were opposed to me and that I oppose my turn to have answers!

If you want to "try it out" just answer there and we'll see : Mrgreen: : Cheesy:

Kind regards.
Last edited by Obamot the 13 / 11 / 15, 13: 10, 2 edited once.
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by Surivai » 13/11/15, 13:04

I do not think I was aggressive on the contrary! Good luck.


There is no aggression on my part either. You will notice that there is no exclamation point.

It's just that I think I've explained clearly and at length that graphene is used in multiple layers and that suddenly the electrode is more than one atom thick. And you answer that it's not graphene if it's more than an atom thick ...
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A large file to learn all about supercapacitors: http://www.supercondensateur.com/dossie ... densateurs
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by Obamot » 13/11/15, 13:08

See my MP, attend a little there and we'll talk again (I want to lend you a hand) : Cheesy:

Ok I noticed, you were doing humor :P

PS: if it was so simple would not have already replaced lithium and lead batteries!?!?
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by Surivai » 13/11/15, 15:22

Well, I read the whole thread.

There is confusion capacitor / supercapacitor. A supercapacitor is technically different from different types of capacitors and it is also a pity that another name has not been given, because many are confusing.

When a capacitor uses planar frames, a supercapacitor uses micro-porous electrodes.

A supercapacitor uses an electrolyte that literally impregnates the electrodes with its ions that enter the electrode whose surface is increased thanks to the micropores.

So there will never be a supercapacitor designed with an electrode consisting of a single layer of flat graphene. It would not be efficient at all and not a supercapacitor.

On the other hand, one can use full layers of graphene separated by the electrolyte or carbon nanotubes, to allow the ions to return deeply within the electrodes and to increase the useful surface of the electrode and thus to increase the density of energy .

Schematically, it gives that:
Image

Obviously this is not easy to make, so for now the SkelCaps are actually not quite made from graphene but with "Carbon Derived from Carbide (CDC), which can effectively be represented as an assembly of curved graphene flakes. "

The CDC looks like this:
Image

Obviously, a dielectric used for an electrode an atom thick would rot. But an electrode will never make an atom thick, even "based" on graphene.
Moreover, all scientific results with electrodes not at least 100 microns thick are not considered significant.
This is indicated here:
http://www.supercondensateur.com/dossie ... -farfelues

Anyone wishing to talk about a supercapacitor should first read this big issue about supercapacitors:
http://www.supercondensateur.com/dossie ... densateurs

There are really a lot of explanations, and it's exciting. 8)
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by Obamot » 13/11/15, 17:45

Well yes I know the CDC but I thought that it was less efficient than graphene (but no matter the bottle)
Thank you for your information.
But sorry I still swim in kirsh. I have always called it ultracapacitors by mistake: in English, supercapacitor and inside we find the CDC so where is the confusion? At their home? they should correct!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor

We had been told (especially on the same site) that graphene would revolutionize storage to replace batteries. We followed every new article greedily waiting for new breakthroughs! Except the problem of the dielectric that from the outset, those who said it had to know that in this form (exfoliation) it could only be a foolish plan. What were they thinking of? Besides, the conductivity must drop in spongy form, I imagine (so loss of some performance!)

Now I learn from you that graphene must be forgotten. Damned it's a betrayal for a geek like me : Cheesy:

In short, the CDC will they meet the hopes placed in graphene performance and with what dielectric should be counted for this type of spongy material compared to lead or lithium?

RTDC.
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by Surivai » 13/11/15, 17:58

Now I learn from you that graphene must be forgotten.


I never said that we had to forget graphene!

On the contrary, graphene is really the revolution of tomorrow!

CDCs are not as good as many layers of graphene separated properly by an electrolyte.

But here it is, technically it is easier to make the CDC than layers of graphene separated as it should by an electrolyte.

So for the moment we are satisfied with CDC supercapacitors and tomorrow we will be able to have even more efficient supercapacitors "based on graphene".

I do not see how to be clearer than I have been.

Is it only me who understands what I am saying?

It would be nice if others of the forum give their opinion on our discusion, because here I despair ...
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A large file to learn all about supercapacitors: http://www.supercondensateur.com/dossie ... densateurs
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by Obamot » 13/11/15, 18:01

Ok this time, it joins a little what I thought / followed, but I had zapped on performance CDCs supposedly inferior!

I should not have! This is due to the fact that I practice the so-called "funnel" method, it takes time before filling the bottle : Mrgreen:

I am rather BAT-BTP! Thanks again.
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by Surivai » 13/11/15, 18:08

Ah, that reassures me.

Note that almost all supercapacitors are made of activated carbon today.

The CDC is already much better than activated charcoal.

So we expect even better with graphene, but it could perhaps be even better with the MXene that was discovered there 3 years I think.

Pleasure. 8)
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A large file to learn all about supercapacitors: http://www.supercondensateur.com/dossie ... densateurs

 


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