Minimum height on false ceiling for recessed LED spotlights

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macspyre
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Registration: 28/04/14, 20:52

Minimum height on false ceiling for recessed LED spotlights




by macspyre » 28/04/14, 23:00

Hello everyone.

As part of a renovation project for my future home, I am looking for lighting solutions based on recessed spots (bulbs seen here) https://www.econologie.com/shop/ampoules-led-c-90 )

The housing is a duplex with exposed beams, whose ceiling height upstairs is limited to 1.95m under beam, and 2.20m under ceiling.

The current ceiling is a false ceiling polystyrene plasterboard glued to the floor above, whose thickness is 6 cm.

The idea would be to make a second false ceiling under the existing one, isolated by rockwool, in which the spots would be recessed, while trying to limit the height as much as possible.

I could read on this forum on subjects dating as 2011 that LEDs required as well as halogen spotlights of a ventilation to avoid overheating.
I foolishly thought the LEDs were not heating up. Excuse me :-)

Do you know the height of the necessary void between the false ceilings, and if so, in order to contain it, would it be possible to make holes in the false ceiling polystyrene in order to recover 6 cm?

Otherwise, I saw LED spots (slims) with an external power supply and requiring only 35mm vacuum on ceiling.
Is this a novelty 2014 that would meet my needs or is it intoxicating?

Thank you in advance for your lights! : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 29/04/14, 13:20

Welcome here!

Yes an LED bulb that heats too, especially at the (or) LEDs.

Basically we must dispel 10 x fewer calories ... but we must dispel them anyway if overheating with the risks that it can induce. For example, this model consumes 3.4W for 35W halogen equivalent: https://www.econologie.com/shop/ampoules-led-c-90

Good dissipation will bring a longer life to the bulb.

So not to take risks, I would install LED bulbs like halogen bulb. Excess heat loss at the spotlights that will change a lot in your heating balance.

For halogen, the norm gives, I believe (to verify) that it is of the order of 1 cm on the diameter (thus hole of 60 mm) and about ten cm in depth. I believe that vertical insulation (even after 10 cm) is even forbidden in the case of halogens ... especially if wood flooring. To verify or confirm by other opinions also ...

By cons, are you sure to want the recessed? Exposed spots would provide perfect insulation of the false ceiling and would be easier to install. Also it allows a better orientation of the spots, so less bright spots ... so investment less heavy.

Otherwise in your case there would also be the solution of led ribbons which have become very affordable and could give a nice effect on the beams. Here is a model of 5m / 1000 Lm the shop of forums less than 30 € for 17W led: https://www.econologie.com/shop/ruban-f ... p-532.html We can now even put a dimmer: https://www.econologie.com/shop/variate ... p-534.html

So much for my opinion ...

ps: to know the number of bulbs, you can look at the numbers here power-and-lighting-RECOMMENDED-calculation-the-number-of-bulb-t10868.html
Last edited by Christophe the 26 / 02 / 15, 12: 44, 2 edited once.
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macspyre
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
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Registration: 28/04/14, 20:52




by macspyre » 29/04/14, 17:15

Thank you for these elements of answer Christophe.

I continued to read the many topics of your forum. It is very enriching ! Nice initiative :-)
Especially your comparative test of halogens, fluo and LED SMD.

If I understand correctly, and since the writing of your article, nothing has changed, it is the SMD bulbs that would heat the least for equivalent lighting? I had read precisely that these led had the particularity of heating more than other types of LEDs.

As for the angle of the spot, when it is indicated 120 ° is it really 120 ° at full power?
I can see everywhere that the angle is often of the order of 30-45 ° max. I am amazed at such a difference.


To answer your questions

The idea is really to light our entire apartment only with recessed spots.
The question of the type of bulb becomes a headache because of all the technical constraints and respect for standards.

Why recessed? Because I find it much more integrated into our apartment (aesthetically speaking) than ramps of spotlights or ceiling lights, and as we remake the entire electrical network, and that it will pass the ceiling, a new false ceiling must be mounted of all ways. So, it's not going to change much in my budget unfortunately :-(

This does not prevent that I intend to install recessed spotlights in places to play a little on indirect lighting.



Regarding the LED ribbons, I'm surprised your proposal, which I admit it did not even touched me, so I consider this product for ambient lighting.

I resume your article on the conversion lumens lux to calculate the number of bulbs (this is also by this page that I found your site, thank you Google!)

If I take as an example my bathroom that makes 11,4m2:
720lm * 11,4m2 = 8208 lm

For the Elix SMD bulb (power consumed 3.4W), this would give
8208 / 240lm = 34W, or 10 spots

In the case of the 300 leds flexible ribbon (power 3.4W / m), this would therefore give 10 linear meters.

Is it this ?


If this is the case, it deserves reflection, I had not imagined this solution ...


Thank you!
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 29/04/14, 20:04

macspyre wrote:As for the angle of the spot, when it is indicated 120 ° is it really 120 ° at full power?
I can see everywhere that the angle is often of the order of 30-45 ° max. I am amazed at such a difference.


The smd version 2014 are multiled (a little bulging generally), which allows them this wide angle. There is little difference in angle with a conventional halogen

macspyre wrote:To answer your questions

The idea is really to light our entire apartment only with recessed spots.
The question of the type of bulb becomes a headache because of all the technical constraints and respect for standards.


GU10 LED SMD is a good choice now ...

macspyre wrote:This does not prevent that I intend to install recessed spotlights in places to play a little on indirect lighting.


Ah yes we must take the orientable, but a recessed will never have the same orientability as a classic spot ...

macspyre wrote:Regarding the LED ribbons, I'm surprised your proposal, which I admit it did not even touched me, so I consider this product for ambient lighting.


This was the case at the beginning, now we can make "useful" lighting with it, obviously the room must be suitable because the lighting is all the same more diffuse!

macspyre wrote:I resume your article on the conversion lumens lux to calculate the number of bulbs (this is also by this page that I found your site, thank you Google!)

If I take as an example my bathroom that makes 11,4m2:
720lm * 11,4m2 = 8208 lm

For the Elix SMD bulb (power consumed 3.4W), this would give
8208 / 240lm = 34W, or 10 spots

In the case of the 300 leds flexible ribbon (power 3.4W / m), this would therefore give 10 linear meters.

Is it this ?


So take again: 720 Lux advised is already a very high scale because on 11,4 m² it would not require 10 spots but 34 spots! For me, it's more than enough!

200 Lux in a bathroom is well enough enough to be a dozen spots of 240 lm for 11m².

After that it's subjective: the color of the lighting plays too!

macspyre wrote:If this is the case, it deserves reflection, I had not imagined this solution ...

Thank you!


Yes we must see now how to integrate the tape to have a constant lighting.

Example: on bathroom furniture (1.2 m wide say, 2m² lighting 200 Lx = 400 Lm is 4m linear to ask), it is necessary to make 3 (= 3.6 m) passages to obtain a lighting power sufficient.

You can have it in cold hallway (sunlight): https://www.econologie.com/shop/ruban-fl ... p-531.html many people prefer white lighting in their bathroom ...
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