Technical debate on diesel engines

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
Christophe
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by Christophe » 12/03/13, 11:06

Uh what prevents from burning CNG in an LPG engine apart from a change in richness and relaxation of the gas?

I mean: CNG engines are converted diesels on which we put a positive ignition but we could very well burn CNG in a petrol engine ...

Then it may be a story of congestion of the CNG tank that limits the use to buses or trucks? (LPG is stored liquid, CNG gaseous)
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Macro
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by Macro » 12/03/13, 11:13

There are cars (company parks) on the gnv on a petrol engine basis. This is not possible for an individual ... In France in any case ...

And when you think of the millions of cubic meters of flared GN per year ...
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by Christophe » 12/03/13, 11:18

Why not possible?

Administratively, technically or fiscally?

Now that we are talking about it, reminds me: there was the C3 CNG but it made a big commercial bide (double taxation of gas with compressor in the garage, individuals did not like, overall price too expensive?):

https://www.econologie.com/c3-gnv-au-gaz ... s-912.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/citroen-c3 ... t2240.html
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by Gaston » 12/03/13, 11:27

Christophe wrote:Now that we are talking about it, reminds me: there was the C3 CNG but it made a big commercial bide (double taxation of gas with compressor in the garage, individuals did not like, overall price too expensive?)
The C3 GNV had all the disadvantages of the electric car (filling time, limited autonomy) without having the advantages (economy and silence).

In addition, the compressor consumes almost as much as recharging an electric car :?
It must bring energy consumption (electricity + gas) to the level of the largest sedans :|
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by Christophe » 12/03/13, 11:30

Ah yes necessarily in this case ... thank you for the details ...
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by Did67 » 12/03/13, 13:44

CNG is just handicapped by its high pressure tanks, because methane does not liquefy easily (well, under "normal" conditions). So: cost, weight and compressor station / filling time !!! (several hours on the C3 traffic light).

LPG, under low pressure, is liquid. Fills up like liquid fuel at the pump, under low pressure (5 bar or something like that). The reservoir is an almost normal steel toric tank.

So CNG is generally linked to captive fleets, with "private" compression stations: bus fleets, etc ...

"Ordinary" gas engines (LPG or CNG) are generally converted gasoline engines.

However, we can have gas Diesel: they are then "dual", because it takes a little injection of diesel to make a "match" and ignite the gas-air mixture admitted by the pipes ...

I do not know if the injection of liquid gas has been tested, but that must pose enormous technical problems of lubrication of the injectors, resistance to high temperatures, etc ...

[I have elsewhere described Schnell's "dual" engines for an anaerobic digestion station - ours is in the final testing phase, this very morning, before starting up in a few weeks; inauguration by the Minister of Agriculture on April 18; small pub by the way; but most of the groups I have seen are huge gasoline engines, with "spark plug" ignition]
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by Did67 » 12/03/13, 13:53

Macro wrote:
And when you think of the millions of cubic meters of flared GN per year ...


They don't care less, anyway in our refineries. It seems to me that it is LPG (mixture of butane and propane) which escapes when the oil is distilled to make gasoline and diesel oils ???? Today it is one of the sources of LPG.

If it was LARP, we would have injected it into city gas networks a long time ago ...

It seems to me anyway. To check.

However, on the deposits, in fact, it is often natural gas associated with the oil deposit, considered too scarce to set up facilities to recover it, transport it (gas pipelines!) and therefore exploit it. So we burn it on the spot.
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by Macro » 12/03/13, 14:08

Above all, the Amerloques deposits ... I think I read that here ... it was huge, it represented the consumption of several of their megacities ...

Diesel / NG and gasoline / gn conversion kits can be easily ordered from users ...
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by chatelot16 » 12/03/13, 17:07

we never flare in a refinery of good gas that it would be possible to bottle

we mainly torch rotten mix impossible to develop ... like purging of material containing air, or corrosive product mixed with gas

there are also flares which are permanently lit with a small flow, for a safety reason: to be able to burn the combustible gas which could go out by safety valves

the flare that we criticize a lot is at the oil well when it comes out a little gas with the oil: when there is no installation capable of storing the gas we burn it stupidly

in some petroleum countries, GTL factories are now being built: gas to liquid: to transform methane which is too difficult to transport into gasoline and diesel which is much more salable.

certain GTL factory looks a lot like the synthesis of fisher tropsch ... the success of the GTL factories proves that we know how to make oil with any carbon
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by Macro » 19/03/13, 14:38

Going back to GNV ... Here is the catch ... GDF denounces all contracts coming to an end ... And French users end up with cars that are not available on their hands.
http://www.humanite.fr/politique/gdf-la ... -la-508096
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