Insulation insulation filling the voids of a wall?

[cortejuan]

Hi,

sorry obamot if you took my comment for aggressiveness, there was none. I was probably wrong to use the term sarcasm (to defend myself from it).

First, remove the quotes to chemist, I'm one, probably not at the top and aware of the latest discoveries but hey, everything is not forgotten especially the basics of chemistry that is the training of salts.

I understand your arguments but the question I ask myself and to which you provide an answer, is that it seems that the non-volatility or stability of a product in very low doses is a guarantee of ecological quality. I had another vision (I am obviously mistaken) on the product with ecological quality. But I remain worried: even in low doses, protected by a tight wall, can we say that a lethal product for insects and small mammals is not a potential danger not only for humans but more generally for the planet ?

I lived for years in a building whose partitions (which are still there) are made of asbestos fiber cement. We had the assurance that thanks to the coatings (paints, glass fabrics) there was no risk. It is true the probes have never detected free asbestos, but colleagues have pierced, sawed the partition (it was authorized before the asbestos affair, today it is prohibited). This work thus released asbestos into the air. These partitions are therefore what I call a potential danger even if no one to my knowledge has developed any pathology.

Examples abound: copper sulphate / copper hydroxide / lime called Bordeaux mixture is a very stable product, used in French vines since the arrival of American mushrooms. I do not know if there have been any developed pathologies due to this product, but the Germans have banned it and have developed plants resistant to fungal attacks.

Ditto for the arsenates used as antifourmi, the doses were very low but finally they were withdrawn.

That is all what my message, which was probably too laconic, meant. I remain on an approach certainly too cautious in my vision of the pollution of the earth.

That said, I would therefore prefer a completely inert product, in the free state or blocked in a binder, a partition, etc. so that, if it accidentally ends up in the air following a fire, uncontrolled DIY, disposal in a dump or not, it does not pollute.

Ah yes I repeat my question: what about the settlement? Is there a risk that after a few years the cellulose wadding will settle?

Always cordially obamot even if I don't want boron wadding.

[Obamot]

Indeed, the chemist knows and knows the implications of his field on the environment!

So he is more sensitive to it than the others. And he's right...

First, remove the quotes to chemist, I'm one, probably not at the top and aware of the latest discoveries but hey, everything is not forgotten especially the basics of chemistry that is the training of salts.

I understand your arguments but the question I ask myself and to which you provide an answer, is that it seems that the non-volatility or stability of a product in very low doses is a guarantee of ecological quality. I had another vision (I am obviously mistaken) on the product with ecological quality. But I remain worried: even in low doses, protected by a tight wall, can we say that a lethal product for insects and small mammals is not a potential danger not only for humans but more generally for the planet ? [...]

That said, I would therefore prefer a completely inert product, in the free state or blocked in a binder, a partition, etc. so that, if it accidentally ends up in the air following a fire, uncontrolled DIY, disposal in a dump or not, it does not pollute.

Ah yes I repeat my question: what about the settlement? Is there a risk that after a few years the cellulose wadding will settle?

Always cordially obamot even if I don't want boron wadding.

The flame retardant qualities of borax are sought after in the treatment of natural insulators, such as, for example, cellulose wadding. Diluted in water, boron salt penetrates well into the wood and does not evaporate

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax

Our chemist explained to me yesterday that metabolic reactions (in general, not specifically to one compound or another) could happen in certain subjects in the mountains and not in the same people by the sea .... To tell you how much this subject interests me (he is a biochemist).

He made a joke with a smirk, telling me that if you were afraid of boron, you shouldn't go to "boron of the sea" ...
(evaporation of seawater as boric acid vapor is already incomparably weaker in an isolated construction of this kind, if one admits an improbable residual volatility).

In short, no, there are many things that are dangerous in our life, long before boron. The chances of a part of the boron salt reacting with moisture and redeveloping a certain volatility, if it is in the form of boric acid is almost zero (if it does not exist, it is not measurable), since it should not be a salt and I do not see how it could return to its acid form, since it has already been in contact with a base which neutralized it. If there is any boric acid remaining, it would be in such a small amount that it would not be compared to the overdose (in comparison) that you would take by the sea ... Do not forget non more, that at this dose of exposure in the maritime environment, the sea air containing volatile boron compounds is very surely reputed to be beneficial (or at least, the human organism knows how to cope with it).

The main contact of boron with the human organism is ... in food, detergents and cosmetic products, and probably in certain tissues (in direct contact with the skin, according to him and according to this source):
http://www.consoglobe.com/bore-dangers-vertus-3455-cg
http://www.consoglobe.com/bore-dangers-vertus-3457-cg

What danger for man?

Humans are exposed to boron through food, drinking water and certain other consumer products such as cosmetics. But on average, more than half of total boron exposure comes from food.

In this case, we are in such low concentrations that they are below the "no observed effect concentration".
Boron is at the indicated dose, an essential element of plant growth, it is found abundantly in nature. Confined / encapsulated inside the cellulose wadding and absorbed by it, the danger can only be supposed but not effective (nothing to do with rock wool or glass ...).

Less point of view is that the concern generated by the use of this natural flame retardant and the stress that results from it, will be far more harmful than possible negative and hypothetical effects. So in this case, yes, it is the only reserve that I see using it ...
But it's no worse than if you were forced to eat potatoes every day and you wouldn't want to.

On the other hand if you have any study on the subject according to the information that you collect, it will always be interesting to share it with us. But as it stands, honestly I don't see.

As for ants, they should not be made to ingest sodium chloride ... It is just salt, however.

[Obamot]

General remark: as said in my first post, you have to ask the manufacturer what exactly he puts against "harmful».

I know that boron attacks xylophagous insects by attacking their digestive system, and as you want to preserve your wood ...

For the provided, it also lives in colony but should be checked ...

[Philippe Schutt]

It cannot be said that the boron salt is completely harmless. A minimum of precautions are required.

http://www.greenfacts.org/fr/bore/l-3/boron-99.htm#0p0

So maximum daily dose 0.4mg / kg, or 30 mg / day for a 75kg man.
If I were to treat my frame, I think I would have it done by a company.

[Obamot]

It cannot be said that the boron salt is completely harmless. A minimum of precautions are required.

http://www.greenfacts.org/fr/bore/l-3/boron-99.htm#0p0

So maximum daily dose 0.4mg / kg, or 30 mg / day for a 75kg man.
If I were to treat my frame, I think I would have it done by a company.

Yes, but possible disorders appear between 100 to 1000 times this dose.
Do not bathe in sea water then Philippe (20 to 26 mg per liter of pure boric acid) and what you taste in addition through the respiratory tract since the acid is very volatile ... (while here we speak of stable non-volatile salt.)
The above doses are so low that it is difficult to say whether they will have a beneficial or negative effect ... It will depend on the subjects amha.

Furthermore, if we take this into account, we must also offer an insulating substitute material with lower harmfulness and at least equal performance! What would you suggest?

Having said that, warning about the doses of any product bodes well, thank you.

[Philippe Schutt]

If I understood correctly, it is not the treated wood that is harmful, but it is when treating it that we must be careful.
The method of application is important.

[Obamot]

Ah well, there is indeed no question of absorbing it during the industrial production process. cellulose wadding ...
In addition, the wearing of a mask (and even coveralls and gloves) must be required for fitting EVEN if a manufacturer tells you that it is safe. It is very clear. But once in place I doubt that the exposure (which is not direct since we are not, with it, in skin contact) will probably be less than the measurement capacity (as already said). But nothing prevents, in fact, to inquire with the manufacturer or any control body if that can reassure. In Germany there is the TUV.
We talked a lot for a time about the fumes produced by the fibers of treated celluloses, but it was with the glues of the chipboard, some of which released formaldehyde (but that has nothing to do with amha)

Last but not least, except in the attic scattered on the ground, the cellulose wadding is always confined.