Burning wood and salt does not make dioxin

[chatelot16]

Well I don't care paske at home we don't have salt water

there were almost ... when after winning the america cup there was talk of putting salt in lake leman to make a sea ... and being able to organize regattas the following year

[dedeleco]

The subject is very complex and studied, in:

http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... D2T7jMdGMQ

.

In all countries, avoid the use of treated wood and driftwood impregnated with salt, as well as the use of plastics to light fires or as fuel.

, driftwood impregnated with salt, and the treated woods are important sources of PCDD / PCDF) as well as the efficiency of combustion

Green or wet woods, as well as those loaded with salt, should be totally avoided. The reason is that green and / or wet wood burns less efficiently and can lead to higher emissions of PCDD / PCDF.

Soot from wood stove burning wood impregnated with salt in a coastal region contained PCDD concentrations 20 to 90 times higher than samples from stoves in areas further down the coast. The concentration of PCDD in the fly ash increased in proportion to the concentration of chlorine (from seawater).

http://fr.advantacell.com/wiki/Feu_de_for%C3%AAt
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feu_de_for%C3%AAt

It has been suspected [6] that near the seas (or after seawater is dropped by water bombers), the chlorine from the salt contributes to producing toxic organochlorines such as dioxins and furans. INERIS analyzed in 2003 the smoke from a few fires corresponding to a brushed area of ​​4 m², in an 80 m³ combustion chamber surmounted by a smoke extraction hood: the emissions of dioxins and furans averaged 10,5 ng I.TEQ / kg of biomass burned (from 1,0 to 25,9). In this experiment, it was not the combustion of plants collected near the sea, but that of those which were wettest which produced the most pollutants (CO, NOx and TVOC) and organochlorines. On the other hand, very dry plants if they emitted much less CO and TVOC when burned, produced much more NOx.

http://www.robindesbois.org/dossiers/rad_nat_techno.pdf

salt not good but another problem is highlighted the radioactivity of our wood and other junk soil due to Chernobyl and natural that I did not know:


http://www.record-net.org/record/etudes ... 208_1A.pdf

the catalysts help, iron, copper sand etc ... so it is very variable.

do not mix everything: peat is not wood

wood has little reason to retain salt, even if it has soaked in seawater

wood soaked in water which dries up on rocks as it evaporates, inevitably keeps the salt in the water inside and therefore has much more salt, like when you evaporate seawater in a sponge or a plate.

wood does not contain sand

wood burns easily at a sufficient temperature to decompose dioxin completely

the wood on a sandy beach outdoors in the wind burns badly, at low T, has sand, and is full of salt, in addition it is sometimes treated with various products, because it has been used elsewhere !!
And on all the beaches of France we burn the enormous quantities of wood deposited by the waves, this outdoors "to have a clean beach" !!
In an open, usual fireplace, it does not burn at high temperature.

so the production of dioxin with wood that has seen sea water must be very rare

it all depends on the combustion conditions, often bad on an outdoor beach or in an open hearth.

peat is a sponge which can retain more salt, which can contain sand, which burns at low temperature ... so there is more risk

And the bees bring us these dioxins and pollution in our honey to eat:
http://labeille.canalblog.com/archives/p184-4.html

Incineration plants emit quantities of toxic particles into the atmosphere: nitrogen oxides, dioxins, sulfur dioxide, furans and if you burn your own waste (in the chimney or at the bottom of the garden), the observation is worse since you produce up to 1000 times more of these particles than an incinerator!

Horrible to realize the reality ignored !!

etc ...
https://www.google.fr/search?q=dioxine+ ... =firefox-a

[Obamot]

Rhôoo Dedeleco, at your age you should not eat dioxin ... let's see ...

The trunks should not be swallowed, eh ... Buy salt in a sachet, like everyone else!

Or take alcohol instead, it keeps the neurons at least

[hic]

Hello

I open this topic to answer that
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post241891.html#241891

without extending the off topic

to make dioxin you have to burn plastic giving off chlorine by burning

the salt is sodium chloride, but the salt cannot be broken down into heat, so for a fire at normal temperature the salt will remain in the ash, along with the other mineral salts which are not broken down either

be careful in chemistry nothing is ever 100% true: it is possible to produce hydrochloric acid by heating a mixture of salt and sand (hence its former name of spirit of salt): so it will be possible to find traces of dioxin: with the current means of analysis when we search we always find a little!

but between finding traces, and having a real pollution there is a difference

the production of chlorine with salt and silica is done only at very high temperature therefore with a fire strong enough to destroy any dioxin

the dioxin production would be done in a fire not hot enough ... so not hot enough either to make chlorine with salt and silica

alas i don't have a precise figure: so don't bother to find it

the problem is simple

the temperature of the flame of a candle is 1600 ° in the center,

if we manage to confine the heat of the candle, the combustion temperature will exceed 1600 °

therefore all combustions are likely to produce high temperatures locally (see up to 3000 °)

[chatelot16]

of course that in a beautiful flame there is a high temperature, and if we were sure that everything passed in this hot point before leaving by the chimney there would never be dioxin because it would be destroyed by the high temperature

the problem is that in a bad fire there are lots of product that go up in smoke without going through the hottest point

My conclusion is rather that salt is not the problem: what to avoid is bad fires that do not heat enough

[dedeleco]

I don't understand this trend yet deny the reality, studied by many others in the past, and even suffered in their bodies, in silence, with much suffering in the world, thanks to the negation of this reality ..
We make dioxin easily without realizing it, and asserting that an ordinary candle flame or other, is safe with salt, because it is very white in a certain place, therefore at well over 1000 ° C which decomposes dioxin, or the reverse that the salt is never decomposed, by insufficient T (while we see the beautiful yellow color of atomic sodium in the flame, proof of the decomposition of NaCL) and that therefore it cannot make dioxin, with salt or other crap, is almost manipulation, because the other parts of this chaotic flame are at a much lower temperature, with random movements, at all kinds of T, and therefore a serious portion is not properly heated and produces dioxin with any chlorine compound that found there. Chaos leads to the fact that the quantity produced is very variable according to small changes in the conditions which completely escape us in most combustions

So avoid burning wood containing chlorine, treated or salted by sea water !!!
Especially in the open air in sea wind, which brings back all the burnt dirt towards the ground.

http://www.ccme.ca/assets/pdf/d_and_f_standard_e.pdf
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/epd/industrial ... ort_08.pdf

look at this link and throw salt in the flame of a candle or gas !!
http://wiki.scienceamusante.net/index.p ... or%C3%A9es

Wood that has not been exposed to salt water typically contains less than 0.01% chlorine. If the
wood has been ocean transported via log booms or otherwise exposed to marine salt water
(primarily wood from BC's coastal forests), then the chlorine content of the now salt soaked hog
can be in the range of 0.8% chlorine (Ref # 16). The presence of chlorine is important for three
main reasons.
1. It is a precursor to dioxin formation (dioxin formation is discussed in Section 4.2.2);
2. It often appears as a fume (very fine particle) that is difficult to collect in electrostatic
precipitators (EPS), and much of it may therefore pass right through and out the stack;
and,
3. It creates a feather that can be visible some distance from the source. It is not uncommon
on large combustors burning salt laden hog fuel for over 30 -65% of the particle
emissions to be salt (Ref. # 16 and # 21).

Table 8, indicates that the emissions from smaller boilers burning wood containing salt, in this
case about 2000 mg / kg, can have dioxin concentrations several orders of magnitude greater than
large pulp mill boilers

Due to the potential for dioxin formation from salt containing hog or wood fuel, the use of such
fuels should be limited in smaller combustors that have not been specifically designed or
demonstrated to minimize dioxin training.



Unique to British Columbia, the burning of salt laden wood results in an annual release of 8.6
gTEQ / year to the atmosphere or 4.3 percent of the national total of dioxin and furans emissions
documented in the inventory of releases prepared under the Canadian Environmental Protection
On
As a result of mill closures and voluntary industry initiatives that have reduced atmospheric
releases, the current total represents a 25% reduction from 1990 releases.
Dioxins and furans emitted from coastal pulp and paper mills are created through the burning of
salt contaminated hogged fuel. Logs transported and stored in salt water take up chlorine into the
bark. The bark is stripped from the logs and ground up to produce hogged fuel.
This material is then used as boiler fuel to produce heat and electrical energy for the pulp and
paper process. Over 1.4 million oven dried tons of hogged fuel were used by the coastal pulp
and paper industry in BC in 1998.

Restrictions on the use of salt laden wood in smaller boilers
are recommended in order to prevent dioxin formation from those less controlled sources

The dioxin from the defoliants on Vietnam was trace, hardly detectable at the time, with insufficiently sensitive means of analysis, but it caused hundreds of thousands of misfortunes:

http://www.vned.org/index.php?option=co ... &Itemid=14

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 9027a.html

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychloro ... -p-dioxine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychlori ... nzodioxins


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioxins_an ... _compounds
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioxine
http://www.combat-monsanto.org/spip.php?rubrique9

The authorized (tolerated) dioxin levels are 1 picogram / gram for pork, 2 picogram / gram for poultry, 3 picogram / gram for eggs and milk and 4 for fish. There will be no European aid for farmers affected by dioxin contamination, but the committee says it is ready to regulate the activities of the fat producers who caused the scandal16.



According to Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 4.8 million Vietnamese people were exposed to Agent Orange, resulting in 400,000 people being killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects


Explosions resulting from the terrorist attacks on the US on September 11, 2001, released massive amounts of dust into the air. The air was measured for dioxins from September 23, 2001, to November 21, 2001, and reported to be "likely the highest ambient concentration that have ever been reported [in history]." The United States Environmental Protection Agency report dated October 2002 and released in December 2002 titled "Exposure and Human Health Evaluation of Airborne Pollution from the World Trade Center Disaster" authored by the EPA Office of Research and Development in Washington states that dioxin levels recorded at a monitoring station on Park Row near City Hall Park in New York between October 12 and 29, 2001, averaged 5.6 parts per trillion, or nearly six times the highest dioxin level ever recorded in the US Dioxin levels in the rubble of the World Trade Centers were much higher with concentrations ranging from 10 to 170 parts per trillion. The report did no measuring of the toxicity of indoor air.

Agent orange, created by the multinational Monsanto, is in fact pink and brownish, and owes its name to the orange bands inscribed on the barrels in which it was stored. Likewise, the agents white, blue, pink, green and purple were baptized.

This product was in common use and used in agriculture both in the United States and in the USSR, in the 1960s, it was not thought then that it was toxic to humans.

These herbicides were used to defoliate the forests and thus prevent the Vietnamese insurgents from hiding, to destroy their crops, but also to clear the surroundings of American military installations and prevent attacks there.

These chemical warfare operations began in 1961, the first spreading taking place on August 10 in the province of Kontum in the center of the country1. The program, titled Operation Ranch Hand, then began gradually with the green light from President John F. Kennedy until it reached its peak in 1965. They then gradually decreased and finally stopped in 1971, following numerous protests in the world and the Even the United States, on the part of scientists, a certain number of parliamentarians and especially American veterans.

I insist, because some people making fires on the beaches "to be cleaned", while I was explaining this reality to them, insulted me !!

[moinsdewatt]

Hello,

The melting point of sodium chloride is 800 ° C and boiling point 1460 ° C.

A+

Except that sea salt also contains a lot of Magnesium fence whose melting point is much lower.

Dedelco completely zapped this MgCl.

The question therefore remains whole.

[dedeleco]

And CaCL2 second after sea NaCl is even more forgotten !!

and the melting of salt mixtures is lowered in a complex way, but that's not the problem !!

The problem is not the melting of the salts, capable of reacting in the solid state often, but the trace chemical reactions that occur to give chlorinated junk like dioxins, also in trace amounts, in very easily variable amounts, not changing much, involuntary catalyst, etc ...

Dioxin is dangerous in trace amounts, as in Vietnam and elsewhere.


Read the many links and various studies that have measured and not followed invalid fusion theories, given the great complexity.

I indicated a little bit !!

And do not decide too quickly without having read these numerous works.