What are the advantages of the tram?

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What are the advantages of the tram?




by elephant » 14/05/12, 08:36

The city of Liège will spend € 13 million to equip itself with new tram lines, for a total amount of € 500 million.

Can someone explain to me what is the advantage of a tram over a bus line on own site, especially at a time when nuclear power will be abandoned.

It is obvious that the bus I am thinking of would be powered by LPG or later with hydrogen (solar electrolytic event)

The tram has a big drawback for me:

Exclusive use of the chosen route: inability to use a diverted route or to go further.

Extremely heavy vehicles, unsuitable for steep slopes

Expensive, complex, unsightly infrastructure

Emission of a low or sub-high rumble, much more unpleasant than the noise of a good quality bus

In addition, a bus line can be used "as soon as the tarmac is laid", which is far from the case for a tram line.

The bus on its own site may well be common to several bus lines which will go further, without changing vehicles and a broken down bus may be overtaken.

What are your opinions ?
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by phil53 » 14/05/12, 09:16

Completely of your opinion, I do not understand this craze for the tram.
The tons of concrete it takes, it's excessive!
The tonnes weighed by gear also seem disproportionate to me. You have to stop and restart it every 3 or 400m on average.
And the price, then there, it gives dizziness.

In addition, I forgot, now that I am a velocipédiste, each time that we cross a tram line we are entitled to good jolts because in addition to the rails often the pavement is broken, is damaged faster by these places because weakened by the many passages.
A "bus way" does not have this disadvantage
Last edited by phil53 the 14 / 05 / 12, 09: 21, 1 edited once.
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by yannko » 14/05/12, 09:18

Hi Elephant,

Living in Prague for a while, with its thirty tram lines, its metro and all its bus lines, I can try to give you my point of view.

From the user's point of view, the tram is comfortable, not too noisy (relatively punctual), quick and pleasant to use. Being outside is a big plus compared to the metro.

The bus, I take it very often, I am far from being a fan. Vibrations, odors, lack of space (it drags to death), pollution (despite biodiesel / gnv etc ...). Of course it goes everywhere or the tram does not go. Many people get sick quickly by bus (the state of the roads not helping too much it must be said).

Big advantage of the tram: we do not experience traffic jams (very regular bus, it can make a difference of 15-20 minutes). On the other hand it is true that in the event of a breakdown (very rare however) the track is condemned for a certain time.

The tram climbs much better than the bus in my opinion (and this city is far from flat).

Technically, it is expensive, but no consumption at standstill, and above all no additional discharges in already overpolluted cities.

It is my preferred personal transport (with the train of course on the ground). It's good in a way because the lines create more traffic constraints and push people to abandon the car.

After I do not say that it is ideal, but frankly more pleasant than the bus.
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by minguinhirigue » 14/05/12, 09:27

If the buses on their own site can completely compete with the trams (ex: Curitiba), when they do, these buses no longer benefit from the advantages that you site:
+ The rapid transport of a large number of passages requires longer vehicles than double buses. They are not compatible with off-site urban traffic.
+ The installation of tram tracks is far from unattractive, if it is well managed, it makes it possible to bring back beautiful paved or grassed tracks in the city. This is the case in Bordeaux, Nantes or Strasbourg ... Perfectly compatible with pedestrian areas, and that is the "foot".
+ Electricity has the disadvantage of relying on declining production in the coming years for Belgium, and of requiring suspended lines, often bulky in the urban landscape. However, it allows without complication to regenerate during descents and braking, which is not the case for LGP or hydrogen.
+ There are no major contraindications to the use of a sloping tram, and there are many examples of this. Furthermore, Belgium is not, as far as I can remember, affected by slopes similar to those of Swiss cities, or may actually be impossible to get a vehicle that is too heavy in winter.

Regarding noise, I agree, the only solution is actually the tram on tires: very long, equipped with an alternative combustion engine for short trips, but whose successful examples are rare ... Nantes maybe , because Nancy is horror ...
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by phil53 » 14/05/12, 09:31

yes, yannko, but there are buses with dedicated lane for them, in this case they do not experience traffic jams. It's like a tram but without rails. It is on tires and can get out of its way in some cases.
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by elephant » 14/05/12, 09:37

I receive your arguments, Yanko, but I still remember that I clarified:

- own site (they already have them in Liège), possibly with traffic light control.
- LPG or, later photovoltaic electrolytic hydrogen

and there is probably a way to change the design of the motors to improve comfort when stopped.

And the City of Liège has some very beautiful slopes (it is in a valley bottom)

minguinhirigue:

I did say "clean site".

And the bottom of my reflection is political: Belgium is at the bottom of the abyss with its public debt and does not have 500 M € to devote in investment. And in addition, the brothel: we have just inaugurated a new tram line in Charleroi: over 5 km, you can not imagine the brothel in 3 years, in particular the loss of customers for the traders of the Chaussée de Bruxelles in Charleroi Viaduct and Jumet-Gosselies.
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by Christophe » 14/05/12, 09:45

Well ... I thought we had more public money? : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

Yes, the advantage of the tram is to be able to transport more passengers during peak periods ...

A tram is also "fashionable"; it looks "classy" in the city's prospectuses ...

Attention in Strasbourg, the tram obviously crosses the streets used by other vehicles and with absolute priority to the tram (it does not stop except at stops). At the beginning, it seems to me that it had caused a lot of congestion ... in short of a mess!

Current trams run on their own, that is to say that its installation will take up space on existing streets.

In Strasbourg it is rather very well done, there are even sometimes cycle paths between 2 tram tracks (Boulevard de la Victoire for example).

To see a small study I did on the subject of city transport in 2000 (but still quite topical ...): https://www.econologie.com/rapport-sur-l ... -3356.html
https://www.econologie.com/les-transport ... es-27.html
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by elephant » 14/05/12, 09:50

Liège already has a major "own site" axis (Bd d'Avroy, Bd de la Sauvenière), a former tram site
Place St Lambert, formerly used for trams, has been converted to buses.
And in front of the new Calatrava station, there is a bus plaza.

In short, I think that it is a monumental blunder to go and reinstall trams when they were deleted at the end of the 60s.

The priority in Belgium must be the economy of public resources!
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by Christophe » 14/05/12, 10:11

I didn't quite understand: is there already a tram in Liège or not? Are you talking about 13 out of 500 M € which suggests that it already exists?

elephant wrote:In short, I think that it is a monumental blunder to go and reinstall trams when they were deleted at the end of the 60s.


It is exactly, word for word, the argument of some about the work of the Strasbourg tram ...but it was almost 20 years ago now and not in a period of austerity!

Today, everyone (or almost) is "happy" with the Strasbourg tram project ...

elephant wrote:The priority in Belgium must be the economy of public resources!


Absolutely ... Especially since Liège has already had its share of lavish public spending, I am thinking of the "monstrous" (in terms of excess and budget ...) Guillemins station http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gare_de_Li ... Guillemins !!

Also for what I have been in Liege it seems to me that the city is quite hilly so completely incompatible with a tram (on rails) which, like a train, can only climb small gradients!
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by elephant » 14/05/12, 10:29

The LIège tram was dismantled at the end of the 60s or early 70s and replaced by buses on its own site!

What I like about the own site bus is that the line can be used directly by a new line, a special bus, coaches for an event or emergency services. (I'm talking about the real clean site, not rails on the pavement)
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