Solar Hybrid / Geothermal for Heating and Cooling

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
netshaman
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Solar Hybrid / Geothermal for Heating and Cooling




by netshaman » 11/08/10, 00:30

After reflection and following the very instructive discussions carried out on these two following posts:

https://www.econologie.com/forums/puits-prov ... t9871.html

https://www.econologie.com/forums/chauffage- ... t9870.html

I think I could develop a hybrid system, using a single diffuser connected to two independent circuits.
In summer, the "provencal well" function described in the first post would be operational, and in winter that of "solar heater" could predre the relay.
It would suffice for this to make two circuits connected together by a three-way valve with two positions, summer / winter toggling on one or the other of the circuits according to the season.
THE question that pisses me off is which solar system (no pun intended) is the most efficient:

- preheat the air of the vmc from the water of the balloon once it is at temperature

-idem but from the panel after having heated the balloon: in this case we also have 2 options:

-open the circuit towards the diffuser while leaving the balloon in circuit or close the circuit of the balloon.

Then it remains to be seen whether we put the diffuser at the fresh air inlet of the vmc or at the outlet of the heated air air of the latter: in the case of a vmc with bypass inlet or outlet no not important in summer, but in winter what is the most effective position?
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 11/08/10, 01:01

The problem is not the determination of the details, but the size of the volume of earth for the provencal well or the surface of solar thermal collectors necessary in winter !!
It is very very superior to a solar water heater !!!
except hyper insulated house.
If miscalculated, failure guaranteed !!
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netshaman
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by netshaman » 11/08/10, 08:58

To heat a little air a few degrees would it take more power than to heat the water in a balloon?
Strange.
But in this case, which calculation method should I apply?
Math is not my forte.
For example, to heat 250 liters of water, a panel is sufficient, according to the installer, and this panel has a surface area of ​​2.50 m².
My house is oriented southwest and is located at these coordinates:

44.51N, 0.99E

According to the site ines, the global irradiation at this location is 4013 wh / m² / day
If the panel is oriented at 58 ° tilt, I think it should be fine.


According to this site: http: //re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps/radmonth.php? En = & europe =
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 11/08/10, 18:07

To heat a little air a few degrees would it take more power than to heat the water in a balloon?
Strange. ..
Math is not my forte.

It's physics and math describes reality, and math is all the more complicated as the system is simple enough to be able to describe it with great precision !!!

Simplified math:
How little m3 is there with each 1,3Kg of air ???
typically 100m3 therefore 130 Kg comparable to the 100litres of the balloon !!
In addition the house has walls (with losses!) Which make them tens of tons to heat with air and therefore this air is harder to heat with the walls around!
In addition, the large surface area of ​​walls with thermal losses gives thermal losses to compensate for by heating and therefore heating a house requires much more energy than the balloon !!!! (the ratio of the external surfaces of the balloon and the walls gives a rough idea of ​​the loss ratio) !!
To heat: 4013 wh / m² / day, in summer and sun or in winter and clouds ??
Not at all the same !!
A typical house with usual poor insulation needs 10KW of heating power, approximately, or 10x24 = 240 KWh / day compared to 4,013KWh / day of the balloon !!
It therefore takes 240/4 = 60 times more or 60x2,5 = 150m2 of solar panel to provide heat by serious cold in winter !!!
If the house is very well insulated, you can divide by 10, heated with a 1KW stove, very, very little !!
This pifometric assessment identifies the problem, but does not solve it validly !!
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 11/08/10, 19:29

I made a mistake for lack of attention, I forgot the m2 in the 4,013KWh / m2 / day and therefore just 60m2, no 150m2.
Math requires attention and care.
However, at home, at -18 ° C outside, I am happy that my boiler delivers 25KW if necessary and not 10KW, because I would have been very cold!
On the other hand, since the sun provides a maximum of 1KW per m2 optimally, the 4,013KWh / m2 / day requires 4 hours of sun at 100% efficiency, and at 50% it takes 8 hours of perpendicular sun.
So this value is a max in summer and in winter it may do much less.
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chatelot16
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by chatelot16 » 11/08/10, 19:30

the solar panels that only make hot water fun me: it does too much in summer and we do not know what to do with the rab

it does not do enough in winters, so it makes a very low energy saving and it is not profitable

however there are times of the year where it is more power than it takes for hot water and where there is a need for heating: no matter if it is enough, it is worth putting some tap to take advantage of this free heat and give the system a little profitability
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