Explanation of how the Pantone engine works

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
Chatchat
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 5
Registration: 09/11/09, 09:10




by Chatchat » 23/11/09, 09:34

@ Chritophe: Despite having searched for more than 1 hours, we cannot find the answers to our questions !!!


In this diagram, the exhaust gases heat the endothermic reactor then the gases go into the bubbler
-What does the bubbler contain? (mixture of hydrocarbon and water?)
-What is going on in the endothermic reactor?
-Where does the cracking of molecules take place? (when there is contact between the gases arriving from the reactor and the fuel at the air mixing valve?)


perfect combustion reaction GO (nitrogen is not present)
2 C16H34 + 49 O2 = 32 CO2 + 34 H2O


-What is GO?
-Where do these gases come from?
0 x
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14138
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 23/11/09, 23:41

Hello Chatchat
Chatchat wrote:@ Chritophe: Despite having searched for more than 1 hours, we cannot find the answers to our questions !!!

The size of the site is starting to be sluggish and you can read several hours a day for months .... without having seen everything !!! So 1:30 ....: Mrgreen: (everything, immediately!)

In this diagram, the exhaust gases heat the endothermic reactor then the gases go into the bubbler
-What does the bubbler contain? (mixture of hydrocarbon and water?)

In a Pantone it can be a mixture of water and hydrocarbons.
In a Giller Pantone, it's water.

-What is going on in the endothermic reactor?

It is an open question to which you will find various proposals envisaged by typing "explanation Pantone theory" in the search engine of Econology. You have enough to read for weeks ....: Mrgreen:
For my part, no exposed theory clearly supplants the others to say ..voiçi la truth or la solution, there is especially much to learn and experiment.

-Where does the cracking of molecules take place? (when there is contact between the gases arriving from the reactor and the fuel at the air mixing valve?)

There are so many possible assemblies / configurations that it is difficult to answer.


-What is GO?
Diesel fuel.
-Where do these gases come from?

Much of the evaporation of water and / or hydrocarbons and possibly the cracking of certain molecules.
A+
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
Chatchat
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 5
Registration: 09/11/09, 09:10




by Chatchat » 30/11/09, 09:44

Thank you for your Flytox answers!

We have understood what is happening in the pantone system, however on the chemical level we do not understand very well!

In fact, the gases arriving from the exhaust heat the fuel water mixture
-What is the chemical reaction going on in the bubbler?
-What exactly is the bubbler for? (purify gases?)
-What happens to the nitrogen that comes from the exhaust?
0 x
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14138
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 30/11/09, 21:53

Chatchat wrote:We have understood what is happening in the pantone system, however on the chemical level we do not understand very well!

In fact, the gases arriving from the exhaust heat the fuel water mixture
-What is the chemical reaction going on in the bubbler?
-What exactly is the bubbler for? (purify gases?)
-What happens to the nitrogen that comes from the exhaust?


In the bubbler, the temperature is below 100 ° and I suppose that not much happens from a chemical point of view apart from the removal of limestone and other cochoncetés : Mrgreen: .... By cons there is intense evaporation and under certain conditions, creating a mist of water droplets (in fact the goal).

The exhaust gases which arrive in the bubbler heat the water, help create the mist of droplets and make it possible to transport the latter in the course of assembly, reactor, etc.

"purification" or .... pollution ???? The properties of water, mist droplets and vapor are can be influenced by exhaust gases and other particles. It is possible that there is an influence on the "quality" of the vapor (size and number of micro-droplets per unit volume for example) and possibly that this results in changing the capacity of the system to create electrical charges. at the reactor level.
This "chemical" aspect upstream, in the bubbler, is unfortunately still little documented.:frown:

For chemistry, at the reactor level, if you heat a mixture of hydrocarbon and water, past a certain temperature, there is cracking of certain "large" molecules into lighter molecules. The result is another fuel which must be in gaseous form at least at these temperatures.

I guess nitrogen is chemically neutral at the bubbler. On the other hand, it is part of the vapor transporting gases. The presence of water during combustion should slightly decrease the combustion temperature and therefore go in the direction of limiting the production of NOx.
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
Chatchat
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 5
Registration: 09/11/09, 09:10




by Chatchat » 14/12/09, 09:31

Hello,

I will give you a summary of what I understood from the pantone engine from a chemical point of view, tell me if I am on the wrong track, or if it is possible.
The recycled exhaust gases (CO2, CO & NO2) are mixed with the water and the hydrocarbon (H2O, C16H34?) Located in the bubbler. There is a chemical reaction that forms the molecule 2 C16H34 + 49 O2. This last goes into the reactor (thanks to evaporation?) Then with heat and speed, this molecule cracks to obtain 32 CO2 + 34 H2O (more volatile and therefore more combustible) which is mixed with diesel, and all go to the intake chamber.

Some questions :
How does this engine pollute less?
The nitrogen from the exhaust gases is not found later, what becomes of it?

Goods.
0 x
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 15989
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5187




by Remundo » 14/12/09, 13:35

Chatchat wrote:The recycled exhaust gases (CO2, CO & NO2) are mixed with the water and the hydrocarbon (H2O, C16H34?) Located in the bubbler.

no, the water is not mixed with the exhaust gases. The water heats up in contact with a tube itself heated outside by gases.
There is a chemical reaction that forms the molecule 2 C16H34 + 49 O2. The latter goes into the reactor (thanks to evaporation?) Then with heat and speed, this molecule cracks to obtain 32 CO2 + 34 H2O (more volatile and therefore more combustible) which is mixed with diesel, and all go to the intake room.

C16H34 is more generally the fuel. It only intervenes in the air / water mixture after injection into a Diesel.

On a gasoline engine, 2 cases are possible:
- direct injection: as in the case of Diesel
- indirect injection: in this case, an air / water / petrol mixture enters the cylinders. There is no significant chemical reaction before compression. And most of the reactions take place after ignition.

How does this engine pollute less?

It is recognized that the presence of water strongly depollutes NOx (nitrogen oxides) and CO (carbon monoxide).

HC unburnt and soot (C) would also be less numerous (Maloche is testing his car and its boiler, André has been doing a full test on a Mercedes Diesel).

It is suspected that the improvement in combustion consumes a little less fuel (in proportions of the order of 0 to 15% in a wide range) for the same mechanical work provided by the engine.
The nitrogen from the exhaust gases is not found later, what becomes of it?

it remains nitrogen N2 before and after combustion. Nox is formed little because the presence of water lowers the maximum temperature of the mixture. Perhaps water or its dissociated compounds also have an unfavorable effect on the formation of NOx by taking up oxygen to decompose the hydrocarbon "C16H34" into CO2 / H2O.

@+
0 x
Image
bernardd
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2278
Registration: 12/12/09, 10:10
x 1




by bernardd » 14/12/09, 14:28

Hello,

It is also possible that the simple spraying of water explains the 2 observations:
    - the increase in pressure due to vaporization increases the mechanical work on the piston, and therefore explains the lower fuel consumption. We should see more specifically an increase in torque.
    - the drop in temperature due to the absorption of heat by vaporization could explain the absence of nitrogen oxidation, because it seems to me that this oxidation only begins above a certain temperature (as well as the creation of various dioxins ...): to be confirmed by a specialist;


If these 2 effects occur, are they sufficient to explain the effects of water injection?

It is necessary "just" to measure rather precisely ...
0 x
See you soon !
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14138
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 14/12/09, 22:44

Remundo wrote:
Chatchat wrote:The recycled exhaust gases (CO2, CO & NO2) are mixed with the water and the hydrocarbon (H2O, C16H34?) Located in the bubbler.

no, the water is not mixed with the exhaust gases. The water heats up in contact with a tube itself heated outside by gases.


There are lots of different possible montages. The "real" Pantone with mono bubbler (far from being the best solution) actually mixes all these beautiful people at the level of the bubbler and with air as a bonus.

In my opinion there is not much happening chemically at the level of the bubbler, the gases remain gas in their vast majority, but tiny droplets of water mingle in the dance. If there is a chemical reaction (cracking for example), this must be done downstream at the level of the reactor whose walls are more than 300 ° up to x ° on a Diesel, or further when the mixture arrives near neutral high.

Fluid movements are caused by the vacuum (suction) prevailing in the intake manifold and the slight overpressure given by the passage of water and / or hydrocarbon vapor.
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132

Back to "Special motors, patents, fuel consumption reduction"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 191 guests