Paternity of water doping Gillier Pantone: to me, to me!

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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Paternity of water doping Gillier Pantone: to me, to me!




by Christophe » 25/07/09, 20:15

... the "controversy" continues ... it gave me it gave me ...

The Gillier-Pantone system is really so great that some people take it for granted…

Where we see once again how some people find it difficult to honestly cite the French inventor and initiator of the system derived from Pantone's multi-fuel processor to which we have given the name of the Gillier-Pantone system, thus associating the name of Pantone with that of the French farmer who innovated.

Other readers of our site will certainly be as surprised as we are to see this kind of oversight in the latest issue of Nexus and will not appreciate this kind of process.

Already, at the outset, from the first lines of the article (however long enough which made it possible to slip these two associated names at least once) we can read two errors:

"Human adventure that started on a forum Internet "

This human adventure has, in fact, started with the first replication in France of the multi-fuel processor of Pantone carried out by Michel David (see the memo of the adventure)

"Pantone engine"

There is no "Pantone engine". We have said, repeated and repeated so many times that we do not count them any more, but in front of us there are hard heads: the Pantone processors have always been adaptations made on various engines. And in all the experiments, we are dealing neither with “Pantone engines”, nor with “water engines”

As for the legend under the photograph

"The inventors" =: - O

Sorry to have to come back to this again, but it is not by forgetting (amnesia syndrome does not exist only among manufacturers) to say that it was Antoine Gillier who had the idea to experiment with the Pantone system by only putting water in the bubbler that you become the inventor.

It is perhaps not glorious for engineers (who were never prevented from launching the train of this human adventure before us and before Antoine) to recognize that the great breakthrough which followed closely our very first experiment has was made by a humble Bourbonnais farmer on his Massey-Ferguson, the tractor n ° 22 published on 05/05/2001 in our pages.

This is really when we can talk about innovation and not in the years following the meeting of those on the photo page 100 of the article. The SPAD whose interest we have never denied will not arrive until 16/07/2004.

It is also not forgetting that Pascal Leblay integrated the reactor in a vertical position that the recovery of the kits becomes better, the "retrokitnano" arrived well after the assembly of Pascal (tractor n ° 42) published on 08/02 / 2003.

It is not by erasing the origin of inventions, ideas and discoveries that one values ​​oneself.

This can happen if we do not know about the history of things, but this is not the case for the editors of this review, nor for the so-called "inventors".

It is however easy to admit that it is by starting from the realizations of Antoine Gillier and Pascal Leblay that we were able to realize the models and the products of today, but whose basic principle remains acquired whoever “historically” you might say, not only found it but experienced it: the facts are stubborn…

The “caution” of the farmer quoted in the article seems rather derisory: his risks were all the same reduced in 2007, after 6 years of useful data gleaned for years and published on our site and in the forums which existed in parallel and from which everyone was able to benefit. This includes assemblies made from numbers 50, then TR1 and several models in succession. These assemblies were indeed made after the first experiments with systems initiated by Antoine Gillier, which their author cannot ignore, having thanked us for having published all this on our site.

Besides, our purpose here is not to judge whether the systems which are all derived from Gillier-Pantone (whether Retrokit, Vulcano or Ecopra * kits) are good or not: see their sites for their results, but to recall that it is inelegant (the word is weak) to ignore the work done by Antoine Gillier.

It is a good thing that systems are now accessible to people who are not experts in mechanical DIY, we will never stop saying it.

But in the same way, we will not stop "pinning" those who claim the authorship of ideas and previous achievements that allowed them to reach the stage where they are.

We already had to point out to Mérindol in June 2005 where the speakers presented themselves as inventors, that the SPADs were copied on the principle found and implemented by Antoine Gillier, of whom they knew the quality of innovator, even if at At that time, we still kept its identity discreet, speaking of the G-Pantone system.

This is all the more deplorable because Antoine, at the beginning of 2001, did not keep his idea for himself and communicated his results. For our part, we did not think of appropriating with Michel David what Antoine had done to the simple fact that they had both spoken (it was 12/02/2001 in front of the 144 cm3 described in page 2 of Michel David's advice) of this possibility of a water-only bubbler (which does not mean that the engine becomes a water engine).

And it is by reading this article from Nexus that we realize that this thought has never even crossed our minds. Michel David, like us, is also respectful of the work of Mrs Pantone and Gillier, and generally of all those who prove real anteriority in their inventions, whatever they may be.

No offense to some, it is all the same Antoine Gillier who had the idea and realized with his hands the first system that we call Gillier-Pantone system, and which will continue to be at the origin of the products sold here or there.

* Ecopra, which also manufactures kits, now clearly displays on its site that its kits are from the Gillier-Pantone system.


Source: http://quanthomme.free.fr/qhsuite/nouv030709.htm

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by Flytox » 26/07/09, 21:53

Let us return to Caesar what is to Antoine .... Gillier : Mrgreen:
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by Other » 27/07/09, 05:13

Hello

The authorship of the pantone or of doping in water has very little importance in the continuation of the events, it would be necessary to look at or in short returned to us since the beginning of the montages.

The Wrigth brothers had the paternity of having studied and built a pilotable planes with fins and well in advance on all the other attempts, their obsession of the secrecy and the patents rotted their existence and the decade which followed many manufacturers on does better.

If we look more closely at the following of those who have made their contribution

Clerget had done a remarkable job on diesel engines and the use of water.
If we look more recently Chambrin also made an assembly (more complex) but has a similar principle
Pantone simplified the Chambrin system and applied it for a multi-fuel operation.
Michel David did a great job of testing and disseminating the plans and a lot of illustrious advice (moreover, I started with these data)

It is Antoine Giller who made the first assembly only in the water following the advice of Michel David (if we read all the details of Michel David we realize that he submitted a lot of ideas and that time he missed doing it and checking it in practice.
Then vertical mounting in stainless steel, built-in bubbler which we owe to Pascal Leblay
Also, a little before, a horizontal assembly principle well conceived (but rustic construction on the Deutz tractor.
Then a clear improvement with the Camel steam generator.

Now we can not be against those who promote and sell complete assemblies kit ready to ask, say inventor is great words, it would be interesting that they think rather to improve the system and that these merchants are trying to understand what factor to work on. Because producing and selling systems with random operation runs the risk of harming the cause of water doping, no more than throwing big figures of 40% and 50% savings, especially if the initial consumption is overvalued .

It has not been established that the consumption of water is directly related to the consumption of diesel in a diesel. (although 20% water versus diesel are fairly common values)
It has not been established that the reactor must operate at the highest possible temperature
It has not been established that a multireactor or a large reactor is as efficient as a standard 12mm rod monoreactor.
Have not arrived at values ​​on the temperature of exit of the reactor, nor on the ratio vapor air which must pass in the reactor, the figures exchanged by those which make experiments are disappeared .. for rather similar results ..
Very few mounting are functional on cars with urban routes with many stops. In my case the savings achieved for cars in road driving are 20% to 35,5% when measured with rigor.
What is it to achieve savings of 35% on the highway if we can not do this in urban use which is the main behavior of users?


What catches my eye in Antoine's first montage is the consumption of water versus that of diesel, I understand that if we make an oversized reactor we can make it treat a larger amount of water, but when we exceeds a certain amount of steam in the engine, the efficiency is not improved.

Another remark the quantity of vapor which one can make swallow with the engine depends more on the quantity of air swallowed than on the quantity of fuel consumed or one of the differences between the doping on a petrol engine and diesel engine and that particularly diesel engine used at low load. (this is the track I work for the city use walk)

What disappoints me of all these companies that make and sell montages is the little data on the results obtained while consuming water or diesel they must occasionally do precise verifications on established routes to improve their system ? This is one of the reasons that I give very few results on the changes I make to my system.
It feels like in wartime or every little piece of information is military secret


So the authorship of the system? it is a bauble to compare the improvement that one must make.


Andre
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