Renault presents the mobility of tomorrow - A video of 5 '

[netshaman]

Congratulations for your site

Oops!
Uh, I think you are mistaken christophe, I am not part of the association!
For the homologation I know no more than what is marked on the site!

[I Citro]

Vehicle range:> 150km, much more in the years to come. The growth of the electric vehicle fleet from year to year will be accompanied by an increase in battery performance (more autonomy).

I am rather in a global dynamic of unsubscribe.
(mobile phone card, deletion of bank accounts or other superfluous cards, including loyalty cards ...
The French electric vehicle has already experienced commercial failure in the form of subscription sales

My 106 batteries store 12kWh, you talk about 24kWh batteries, increases in autonomy and performance ...
This does not, in my opinion, go in the direction of progress.

None of the vehicles announced are revolutionary and energy efficient. The electric vehicle is not yet marketed as manufacturers are already doing an arms race to increase performance, range and especially WEIGHT (we are promised electric Hummers).

Except for the Heuliez Friendly, nothing reasonable is offered ...
And unfortunately, there is much to fear that Heuliez will be sunk by its French competitors ...

[Woodcutter]

Thank you Elec for this explanation.

But I'm still missing logs on:
- how do we manage the different battery models? Unless BP only concerns models of the alliance?
- how do we manage the stock of batteries? Or do we consider that they are recharged so quickly that only one hour of stock is needed at full speed?
- how we justify Actually (and not with demago formulas) the investment since talking about replacing the whole park means nothing?

OK Dirk for the big starts, it's true that it will probably change.

[Christophe]

Lumberjack, I have already asked your first 2 questions above ... I fear that the "alliance" seeks to create a monopoly which will take the customer captive. At the scale of a city it is playable ... of a country the investment is enormous ...

For the 3rd it reminds me of a certain spat of a few months ago ...

Pkoi BP is not interested in super fast charging batteries? It's still "much better" ...

[I Citro]

Pkoi BP is not interested in super fast charging batteries? It's still "much better" ...

Because currently this technology is still under development.
Apart from the laboratory prototypes, nothing operational or industrializable quickly.
As we move down this path we discover new constraints, notably thermal.

This is one of the reasons why vehicles like the Bolloré are "tri-hybrid" by using solar cells for the management of the easements, batteries for the supply of traction without power peaks and supercapacity for efficient recovery and efficient back-up. starting and accelerating.

[Elec]

But with these robot stations is there not a great risk of taking a monopole with the consequences that we can guess?

Yes, I agree on that: monopoly situations are problematic. We can clearly see this with EDF in France, which serves astool to impose nuclear power in France (in particular via the regulated tariffs which distort the rules of the game) whereas one French in 2 does not want it.

However, it will be necessary to agree on standards. We were forced to standardize household electrical outlets ... If there were 100 or 1000 different types of outlets, that would not be really practical.

Any company can make a battery swap robot like the one Renault designed, if they want. There is no patent on the "battery exchanger robot" concept (however, the Renault robot model is patented).

I fear that the "alliance" seeks to create a monopoly which will take captive the customer

Yes, it is necessary that (future) electro-consumers monitor this, especially that Renault has teamed up with EDF... Personally, I would have preferred a partnership with an electricity supplier such as Poweo or Direct Energie. I think that the motorist should be given the freedom to choose his electricity supplier, including to recharge his car. Those who agree to run on 78% nuclear electricity are thus free to do so, those who want to run on truly green electricity can also do so.

That said, if you wish to have the possibility of quickly recharging your battery or exchanging it during our long journeys, you will have to accept the idea of ​​calling on the services of a company. We will not each install a personal infrastructure throughout France.

Pkoi BP is not interested in ultra fast charge batteries?

The Renault / BP model includes fast charging stations (see video) in supermarket car parks, etc. But the fastest terminals make it possible to "fill up with electrons" in 30 minutes, it is too long for long journeys, not practical for the motorist.

However, we must offer customers a system that is both economical and super-practical if we want to massively switch to electro-mobility.
If you want this to work, you should not repeat the mistakes of the past.

Important point: with the Renault / BP model, the interchange stations are not made for the city but only for major roads (journeys greater than 150km, that is to say less than 10% of journeys). Most of the BP infrastructure (idem for Renault), these are not exchange stations, but a network of charging stations (trickle charging and quick charging).
With the Renault / BP model, this is not one solution against another (it is not the fast terminals against exchange robots) but a panel of suitable solutions (slow terminals + fast terminals + exchange robots ) to different situations.

how do we manage the different battery models? Unless BP only concerns models of the alliance?

Yes, beyond 10 different battery models, inventory management becomes problematic (BP carried out computer simulations and came to this conclusion). Again, the question of standards arises. It is not a technical or economic obstacle, but whether the different actors will be smart enough to cooperate for the benefit of all, and in the consumer first.

We can say that if there will be as many types of batteries as there are types of fuels offered to the consumer today, this will go to the management level. But if there were 50 types of fuels in petrol stations, this would also be problematic in terms of management for the person in charge of the station!

how do you really justify the investment?

Questions relating to the health of citizens living in cities and global warming are enough in my opinion to justify this investment. There is also, in addition, the social-economic argument: electro-mobility is cheaper than petro-mobility.

NB - For those who like small electric cars, the SNCF has just signed up: http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2009/ ... trique.php

[I Citro]

NB - For those who like small electric cars, the SNCF has just signed up: http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2009/ ... trique.php

Again thank you for this link.
I really like this vehicle, but the business plan positions it more as a top of the range at more than 20.000 € and even up to 30.000 €.

Finally, if Luménéo is very good at communication, I have some doubts about the technological content. Certain indications make me fear a lack of seriousness in the conception. I am thinking in particular of the electrical consumption advertised, which is 10% lower than that of my scooter for a top speed 3 times greater and a range 2 to 3 times greater ...

[PITMIX]

Hello
For a gentleman like me, I find the idea of ​​replacing the battery in a service station really great.
Much nicer than the idea of ​​a monthly subscription from the manufacturer, ensuring maintenance and replacement of the batteries.
But nobody talks about the very small quantity of lithium available in the world, it is a real problem right? ...

[I Citro]

But nobody talks about the very small quantity of lithium available in the world, it is a real problem right? ...

Well it's a false argument of anti-electrics.
1 / There is little lithium in the batteries of developing cars which we often say here are too heavy and oversized ...
2 / Resources are scattered in many places such as Tibet (you understand why the Chinese do not want to let go and why the Americans support the independence ...). The main known deposit is the salar of the Atacama desert in Chile (40% of known resources).
Next year we plan to produce 30.000 tonnes, enough to equip 1.5 million Chevrolet Volts, therefore containing 20 kg of pure lithium ...
3 / Focusing on lithium as the only electrical storage solution is absurd. We have known how to store electricity in lead, Cadmium, zinc, ... for a very long time. Lithium is just one more solution, and certainly not the latest discovery.

So no, lithium is not a problem, it's a step.