Should we question biofuels?

crude vegetable oil, diester, bio-ethanol or other biofuels, or fuel of vegetable origin ...
carburologue
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by carburologue » 14/03/09, 21:40

WHERE IS THE PRESENTATION SECTION ON THIS FORUM;;;;
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delnoram
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by delnoram » 14/03/09, 23:05

Here

Image

Please consider this closed off topic.
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by Did67 » 15/03/09, 11:57

carburologue wrote:
I do not even know you dip, stop taking everything for you, my remark about the pans is for lumberjack ...


I was talking about the pot in which you simmer your good civil advice ("say hello and thank you" - it was for raps; "not to see aggression in order to live better", as far as I am concerned ...).

The quote I was referring to was at the start of my post. It is clear. It starts well with what you might call an injunction when you're polite: "One last thing, did, stop talking nonsense ...". So re-allow me to take this as a form of aggression towards someone that, as you say, you don't know, who you haven't said hello to either, who is expressing a different opinion from yours. ..

Let those who read this thread - which suddenly becomes irrelevant! - to judge who can claim a form of civilization, who says nonsense ... I do not absolutely want to be right!
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by Former Oceano » 15/03/09, 20:16

Can be an excess of biofuel consumption? : Shock:
I close the topic for one week while we open up to refocus on the subject : Mrgreen:
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by Former Oceano » 22/03/09, 20:58

And here, as promised I open the subject after a break of a week.
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delnoram
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by delnoram » 22/03/09, 21:11

Pfff with 41 minutes and 29 seconds late : Evil:

: Mrgreen:
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minguinhirigue
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by minguinhirigue » 23/03/09, 00:13

Subject re-opened, I take ...

I am a bit like a lumberjack, interested in the information that gives Elec about biofuels but a little "worn out" by its crusade against other technologies than electric vehicles ...

Repeating the "yield" per hectare proposed by Elec, we have:
- First-generation agrofuels with yields close to 400 times lower than the electricity vehicle ...
- last generation biofuels, based on micro-algae with yields 10 times lower than VE (yield of the order of 1000 MWH / ha / year, with an oleaginous conversion of 70% and 25% of engine yield ... we have 175 MWh available from hectare to the wheel).

Some are about to be banned by the EU, and condemned by the UN (agrofuels competing with food resources by direct use of food plants or arable land ...); The others are now expensive, not yet completely industrializable, and comparatively little subsidized (algo-fuels products for research and with subsidies to compare to state investment in the oil lobby and the defrayment of manufacturers of silicon and lithium possible thanks to the laws of the market and the massive relocation of exploitation ...).

But the electric vehicle today has to face the same technological leap as microalgae fields: large-scale development. Either by a technical breakthrough allowing an affordable cost price for current peak batteries (lithium & co batteries at 200 or 300 kWh / kg), or by confirming the technical viability (prototype in a region) of devices such as Better -square.

I think frankly that in the long term (1 / 4 century, 1 / 2 century, 1 century?), Electric vehicles have much more interests than their thermal competitors (noise, pollution, energy efficiency, non competition of food resources , development of renewable energies, etc ...) But in the short term, and for a long time still in certain niche areas (like aviation), a renewable substitute for fossil fuels is essential ... I believe it possible ... Indispensable because that we can not manage the abrupt conversion of the car fleet to the electric technically (stated above, electricity has not proved this on a large scale!), economically (who are paying?), socially (go-zy, make no noise your b'cane!), ecologically (tons of waste !?) ......

With regard to the key questions asked at the beginning of forum : Should biofuels be questioned? Yes, we do it every day, and still happy ...
Should biofuels be banned because they compete with agrarian lands? Yes and no, we must ban agrofuels that compete with agrarian lands, the nuance being that some biofuels do not compete with food resources at all: landfill gas, methanization of waste, exploitation of micro-algae ....

So yes, it is disastrous to know that children are dying and that some Americans filling their tank consume the amount of grain that would have needed these gavroches to live a whole year!
But at the same time, the extraction of minerals in today's forgotten conditions of the Europeans (see the conflicts in the Congo and the mining resources that come out of them), for the silicon and the lithium of the electrical industry, it's not pretty ...
We must condemn skidding wherever they happen ... Please, avoid the prosecution ...
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by C moa » 23/03/09, 09:33

+ 1 with minguinhirigue, the alternative will be but not at the speed of a galloping horse.
Even if tomorrow everybody wanted some and scrapped it, the manufacturers could not provide. We see it well with Bolloré who will select its customers.

+ 1 on the fact that it will be difficult to dispense with a fuel as concentrated as oil for certain applications (air transport of course but also the road freight).

+ 1 also on the arrival of new biotechnology that can be good alternatives. All will not require the use of arable land. For algae, I would see an offshore solution about ten miles from the coast with a pipe joining a refinery. Of course, before you get there, you will have to select the most interesting algae (+ 100 x the current agro-calf yields). It is also possible to use fallow land and move the structures according to the fields used.

Regarding the questioning of agrofuels I am 100% for, a small article that goes in this direction. http://www.lepetitjournal.com/content/view/38460/1563/.
From an economic point of view it's not profitable today, but let's not kid the price of crude will rise sharply in the coming years so it will be.

Let's ask about the ecological interest of E10:
- A lot of energy will be spent to upgrade the service stations so it's : Arrowd:
- Only 10% ethanol is present in this product so 90% of the product remains linked to the extraction so it is : Arrowd:
- Ethanol production and transportation techniques are also very energy intensive so here too it is more : Arrowd:
- Vehicles will consume more than traditional SP95 while they own 90% of SP95. Look for the mistake, so again it's really : Arrowd:

As you can see, he has everything to please this E10 : Evil:

Have a lovely day everybody,
C moa
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