Plumbing and sanitaryWater evacuation problem + noise

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karine31140
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Water evacuation problem + noise

Unread Messageby karine31140 » 02/03/20, 08:47

Hello,

We live for four months in our new house (self-construction) and very punctually, more precisely when it rains, we have strange phenomena in one of the bathrooms mainly. We have 2 vents of 50 mm each and have put on hats for less than a month (sorry I don't know the name anymore) at the end of each vent because if a shower was not used for 2 days we had odors. For the moment the odor problem is solved.
In this bathroom we have 1 wall-hung toilet + 2 basins + walk-in shower.
When it rains and we flush, for example, the water makes the yoyo until finally getting back to the right level. At the shower, the water stagnates then, suddenly it drains, without doing anything special and this causes big noises of pipes as if the water was sucked ... same for the basins.
Do you have an idea of ​​what can create this phenomenon and how to solve it definitively? Why does this phenomenon only occur in rainy weather?
Thanks for your help and have a nice day
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Christophe
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Re: Water evacuation problem + noise

Unread Messageby Christophe » 02/03/20, 08:55

Hi and welcome here!

Do you have a septic tank with all the water I presume? This is the only thing that could explain that the phenomenon is linked to the rain ...

For the explanation, it is simply a "hydraulic plug" ... water stagnates in the conduits because it does not flow properly: too long / complicated pipe or lack of air intake at the vent.

Can you take a picture of the 2 vent plugs you put on? It must allow an intake of air at the suction, it is a membrane aerator. If it is 100% tight caps it is not good and that explains everything.

Your cap should look like this:

aerator-a-membrane.jpg
aerateur-a-membrane.jpg (10.75 KiB) Viewed 400 times


There is a small membrane inside which blocks the air at the outlet but allows suction when there is vacuum in the pipe (evacuated water which sucks)
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Re: Water evacuation problem + noise

Unread Messageby karine31140 » 02/03/20, 09:21

Hello and thank you for your help,
We are in the sewer.
Our rainwater and wastewater networks are very distinct.
We bought 2 plugs which is called "membrane aerator exhaust in diameter 40". We put a 50/40 reducer because the aerators are in 40 and our vents in 50 ... I can't attach the photo (how should I do?)
From the point of view of the evacuation pipe under the house, it is completely straight because all the evacuations are on the same side, except on the side of this bathroom we have a turn.
Thank you
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Re: Water evacuation problem + noise

Unread Messageby Christophe » 02/03/20, 09:53

For the photo use the attachment function when you write a message (at the bottom of the writing window) but a priori the vents are the right ones (have you tested them? Some are adjustable it seems to me)

If you are in the sewer, it's the same as an all-water pit: rainwater is mixed with wastewater from a certain pipe ...

At some point rain and gray or black water will take the same pipe.

If your networks were really very distinct you would not see a difference when it rains ... or it is because the sewer is undersized but it would still be surprising ...

Or a plug of matter somewhere ??
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Re: Water evacuation problem + noise

Unread Messageby izentrop » 02/03/20, 10:43

Hello,
Does the primary ventilation exit well above the roof?
Image https://blogs.plombiers-reunis.com/rese ... maire.html.
For the ventilation to be effective it must be the same diameter as that of the pipe or it is connected (generally Ø100 for sewage) and must go up to the roof, their air flow must be 10 to 30 times greater than the flow water from the pipeline.
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Re: Water evacuation problem + noise

Unread Messageby izentrop » 02/03/20, 10:56

Yes, I think Christophe is right for the grouping of waters.
Some cities have this scheme which should not be the case with youImage
https://www.sciencesetavenir.fr/nature- ... gout_14739
karine31140 wrote:We have 2 vents of 50 mm each and have been wearing hats for less than a month
Should they come out of the roof? and in this case do not require a vent.
karine31140 wrote:if a shower was not used for 2 days we had odors.
Because of the effects of yoyo, the siphon must empty. A plug on the drain should solve the problem indeed.
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Re: Water evacuation problem + noise

Unread Messageby Did67 » 02/03/20, 11:17

Normally there are two things:

a) a "vent" or "air intake" at the end of the pipes, which protrude from the roof on the longest pipe; this puts the pipe in the air ... (we can see it on the diagram above, go out on the roof, plugged in behind the toilet)

b) the anti-gouging as pictured above: when water is run, the water column "sucks" air (see "water jet air pumps"); where "gurgles" in the neighboring siphons, which empty of water, and then the rise of bad smells ... There, we put a membrane air intake at the end of the pipes, for example behind and "above" the connection of the sink ... Like that when this column of water sucks, when we empty the sink, it will "suck" through this system which thanks to its membrane prevents the rise of bad smells ... Be careful, these things sometimes have a meaning (a "high")
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Re: Water evacuation problem + noise

Unread Messageby Christophe » 02/03/20, 11:55

Didier, that's right, and with well-sized vents / pipes, there is no more gurgling at all ... avoiding gurgling is their primary function.

Did67 wrote:Be careful, these things sometimes have a meaning (a "high")


Not sometimes always since it is a valve but you could not otherwise mount it on the pipe anyway since there is a "terminal" part ...

But a priori all the membrane models have a return spring which closes the membrane in the absence of suction, so a priori we can mount them with an angle? Unless it is the self-weight of the membrane which closes the duct without depression? To see depending on the models ...

Is the fact that Karine is complaining about odors a sign of clogged conduct or misplaced vent? If the vent is on the roof (so a priori "far from the noses") and it smelled it is that there may be a problem right?

We can very well put a valve vent inside (roof, cellar ...) it is not necessarily on the roof ... I put in my crawlspace for example.

Let's wait for his photos to find out more ...
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Re: Water evacuation problem + noise

Unread Messageby JLB29P » 21/03/20, 11:46

I should probably open a new topic, but it's also an evacuation problem.
difference: very old house and evacuation!
2 pipes leave, one from the house, the other from the cottage. They communicate because the water in the manholes rises or falls together (with an offsetting which suggests a partial stopper between the 2), the rainwater and sewers are connected!
information taken, it's "normal" here!
rainwater (their overflow) is used to clean the sewage pipes! (like a flush)
except that the 2 seem blocked!
There should be 2 times 30m of cement pipes until the evacuation on street which it is recent (10 to 30 years)
After a recent heavy rain, the neighbor's cellar was flooded, and the clogging of the pipes became evident.
I probed the evacuation pipes with a garden hose (rigid model) it stops after 8 to 9 m, so I dig and find not a pipe, but a kind of buried channel covered with bricks and plaster ; but no obvious continuity.
I dare not dig in the machine, because below there are troglo cellars from the neighbor which almost outcrop! (Doué is a Swiss cheese).
Has anyone encountered this kind of sitation (and found a cure)?
In particular, how to locate buried cement pipes, or the presence of water? no dowsing in my relationships and if it works, the underground cavities would certainly disturb ...
The president having declared that we were at war, I started the trenches ...

Among the many "small" problems encountered in this house: damp wall, seeking recovery by capillarity, cracks in a terrace ... nothing
It was the ventilation grille of the hood which was mounted upside down! the gills making funnel when it rained (and that for 30 years ???)
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Re: Water evacuation problem + noise

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 21/03/20, 12:16

Given the period, you can calmly consider digging it by hand and replacing all the pipes with a pvc pipe. It is often that in the matter we come across bizarre things ...
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