Can there be ecological transportation?

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
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sen-no-sen
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by sen-no-sen » 28/08/12, 20:19

chatelot16 wrote:the train could be good if it was used well!

lighter gear is needed for small lines! with more economical equipment there could be more frequent passage, and small lines could become useful again ... whereas with 2 passage per day it is useless


It is under development in France, with the Tram-train:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram-train



the management of the sncf is done as in 1850 with unchanging program without taking into account the real frequentation ... whereas with the current means we could adapt the number of wagon and even increase the number of train according to the passenger who arrive


SNCF does what it can (it's crazy I come to defend SNCF!), It only adapts to economic and societal choices.
The financing of the rail is not linked only to the sale of tickets which represents only 50% of the total cost, there are also the regions, and the State.

Huge sums have been swallowed up in the TGV (the LGV Marseille / Nice is 15 billion euros) at the expense of many secondary lines.
However the fault does not rest only on our governors, the principle 1 person / 1bagnole to its effects.
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by chatelot16 » 28/08/12, 20:31

sen-no-sen wrote:On certain lines it is possible that 15 to 17 cars are coupled, with only one powerplant ...
This makes nearly 1200 people transported (this was the case during a recent Marseille / Toulon trip that I made).
At 300L / 100km this makes 0,25l per 100km per passenger.


it's not glorious compared to a 60 seater bus which consumes 30l / 100: it's 0,5 l / 100 per passenger: it's 2 times more than the full train ... but with all the empty trains running it would take total comparison

the wagons are too heavy: they have the solidity to be put in train very long, and it is necessary that the wagon in front supports all that is behind: the way of future is to limit the number of wagon to make lighter, and add small automatic intermediate motor if longer convoys are required
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by sen-no-sen » 28/08/12, 20:40

chatelot16 wrote:
sen-no-sen wrote:On certain lines it is possible that 15 to 17 cars are coupled, with only one powerplant ...
This makes nearly 1200 people transported (this was the case during a recent Marseille / Toulon trip that I made).
At 300L / 100km this makes 0,25l per 100km per passenger.


it's not glorious compared to a 60 seater bus which consumes 30l / 100: it's 0,5 l / 100 per passenger: it's 2 times more than the full train ... but with all the empty trains running it would take total comparison


Except that a coach does not exceed 100km / h and remains dependent on road traffic, and that there is no electric long-range coach.
An intercity train running at 140km / h powered by renewable energy remains the best mode of motorized travel "ecologically" speaking.

the way of the future is to limit the number of wagons to make it lighter, and add small automatic intermediate drive if longer convoys are required


It's called distributed motor skills and it's been around for 30 years.
The Japanese Shinkansen and the future AGV works on principle, this is also the case for the new TERs in the Bombardier and Alstom range.

However, nothing is a good electrical intercity!
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by chatelot16 » 28/08/12, 21:19

of course the distributed motor skills have existed since the first electric metro!

but alas the other trains still do not take advantage of it and we continue to make cars too heavy

the weight is also useful for making solid in the event of an accident at high speed ... but what good is it to go so fast?

everyone slows down to save energy, and the trains go faster and faster just to be too expensive ...

there is less hurry in a train than in a car ... it is enough that it is comfortable enough for the transport time to be a time of rest, and not a lost time!
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by sen-no-sen » 29/08/12, 11:57

chatelot16 wrote:
the weight is also useful for making solid in the event of an accident at high speed ... but what good is it to go so fast?


Sorry, but generally the trains are nowhere near as fast as that.
Most TERs hardly exceed 120km / h, and with constant stops, they hardly reach 80km / h on average ...
Apart from the TGV and its dedicated lines, the national network does not allow very high speeds to be reached.

Paradoxically, it is currently the "old generation" trains (Corail, Intercitès) which have the best energy consumption / number of passengers transported ratio.

The TERs in the Bombardier and Alstom range (except duplex) offer a lot of space, but have little seating, their performance is therefore quite mediocre.
The TGV with its 300/320 km / h is a real mismanagement ...
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by chatelot16 » 29/08/12, 13:33

the tgv can be ecologically better than the plane, so good for those who are in a hurry and want to pay the price, but it is absolutely necessary to redo long-distance lines at economical speed

When I go to Paris, I don't like taking the TGV in the morning: it may be fast, the day is half lost ... I prefer to leave the day before and spend the night at the hotel ... before the TGV I spent part of the night on the train, it was both economical and ecological

there is not necessarily need to use special trains, the same TGV could make journeys at economical speed at night

another problem: the classic train has the advantage of using tracks that require little maintenance: I think more economical and ecological than tarmac roads ... but for the TGV I have doubts: we must maintain a very high quality, and it's ruinous
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by sen-no-sen » 29/08/12, 14:12

chatelot16 wrote:the tgv can be ecologically better than the plane,


Yes! the aircraft, let alone on a national route, is an ecological disaster.
It is like taking the truck alone to get to your destination!

It is also in this logic that the TGV was thought: to compete with the plane.

When I go to Paris, I don't like taking the TGV in the morning: it may be fast, the day is half lost ... I prefer to leave the day before and spend the night at the hotel ... before the TGV I spent part of the night on the train, it was both economical and ecological


100% agree!
An overnight trip at reduced speed would be ideal.



but for the tgv I have doubts: you have to maintain a very high quality, and it's ruinous

Yes, the LGV requires a lot of attention, especially in fencing matters, in order to limit the crossing of animals on the tracks.
The high speed also leads to faster wear of the catenaries and rails.
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by sen-no-sen » 29/08/12, 14:40

sen-no-sen wrote:The TGV with its 300/320 km / h is a real mismanagement ...


I just want to clarify, in favor of the TGV, that despite its high speed, it allows to pass 2 times more passengers at the same time, and also allows to reduce the journey time by half ...
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by Grelinette » 29/08/12, 14:41

Transport is today presented as a decisive economic issue.

However, some situations are completely inconsistent!

For example, we will produce fruits and vegetables in a corner of the world and transport them to the other end of the world in a region that produces the same fruits and the same vegetables! ...

Likewise, I live in the Bouches du Rhône and I sometimes go to Marseille. According to the schedules, roughly in the morning to go to work, and in the evening to return from it, the roads are completely saturated in both directions.

Each time my thinking is as follows:

"... there are surely among all these people who come and go from their jobs, people who do the exact same thing away from home and who cross paths to go and return from their work. It would be so much easier than 'an employee can work near his home! "

A "job exchange" should be established:

For example, an accountant or secretary who works in a business away from home could swap places with another accountant or secretary who does the opposite!

It is a bit like certain companies or craftsmen who intelligently exchange sites for reasons of additional travel costs.
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by chatelot16 » 29/08/12, 15:09

exchange work or exchange accommodation!

and to change accommodation easily, there must be accommodation available for rent ... and not the current housing shortage which means that everyone remains attached to their own whatever the displacement problem

So one of the ways to reduce energy consumption is to build housing that is well placed to reduce travel.

correct urban planning errors such as industrial zones without housing ... and housing zones without employment

moving away from housing was perhaps an idea to move away from noisy and noisy factories ... but we must recognize the progress that has been made for the ecological quality of many companies, which no longer justifies moving away from housing

correct the tax errors that make excessive local tax in some big city, and make you prefer to live 30km away: the tax saving being greater than the wasting of fuel
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