The car of the future

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
Elec
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by Elec » 02/01/09, 23:35

Lietseu wrote:Quality wind will help her not to contribute to the development of our future electric cars, lightweight and aerodynamic?


Absolutely !

micro-wind turbine * + electric car = independence from petroleum + savings + ecology;)

* or micro-wind / PV hybridization
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RIAZ
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Re: The car of the future




by RIAZ » 03/01/09, 09:09

Michel Kieffer wrote:The car of the future she will be more hybrid? electric ...? ... Compressed air? ... Hydrogen? ...


I discover the thread opened by Michel KIEFER. I just went through the first slideshow Fossil fuel, alternatives and illusions and I cannot resist the pleasure of greeting and applauding, without going any further, this newcomer who obviously has thought a little (a lot) before writing ...
Elec does not seem concerned by this basic elegance, it is equal to itself and did not surprise anyone I think ....

Obviously the calculation of the area of ​​PV panels of equivalent power to the car engine is correct .... and that it is likely to remain so for a long time unless there is a good technological surprise ....

And I immersed immediately and with greed in the discovery of the continuation of the productions of Michel KIEFER
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In terms of the future, it is not to foresee it, but to enable it (Antoine de Saint Exupery)
RIAZ
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by RIAZ » 03/01/09, 12:53

We can say of Michel KIEFER, by plagiarizing the poet:
"Everything is good with him, there is nothing to throw away" ...

Internet friends and econologists who pass by here, go straight to:
http://cocyane.chez-alice.fr/energie.html
... talk about it around you, spread this link widely (I have already started!) and a certain number of untruths will have a little more difficult to prosper.

And as a bonus, Michel KIEFFER (whom I don't know) says a lot of interesting things on other subjects (which are dear to me too) ....
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In terms of the future, it is not to foresee it, but to enable it (Antoine de Saint Exupery)
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by Christophe » 03/01/09, 12:57

Yes RIAZ, on the other hand in the TGV and CO2 doc (we had already attempted an approximation on the forums), it seems to be missing pages ... am I wrong?

ps: the poet or the butcher? Image
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by RIAZ » 03/01/09, 14:45

The poet is Brassens,
Nothing comes to my mind for butchers, but on the other hand, for appetizers ...

For the TGV data, I saw that Michel KIEFFER said that the data was scarce. I had already noted this by looking for balls to make a text explaining why we would see, in the near future, the speed of TGV reduced to 200 km / h ...

The right leaves are coming, I think, the calculations are done, he says ...

They will allow us to understand why it is cheaper today to travel 600 km with your car (5,7 l / 100) to 2 people, than with the TGV ...

Speed ​​is expensive, you always have to keep that in mind ...
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In terms of the future, it is not to foresee it, but to enable it (Antoine de Saint Exupery)

Elec
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Re: The car of the future




by Elec » 03/01/09, 18:03

RIAZ wrote: the calculation of the area of ​​PV panels of equivalent power to the car engine is exact .... and that it is likely to remain so for a long time unless there is a good technological surprise ....
I talked about it with Michel on the phone: he recognizes that there is a shell and will correct this part soon, as soon as he has a little time.

I also talked with him about new batteries (LiFePO4), smart grids (V2G / G2V), the interest of the HVDC to connect wind or solar farms, as well as the BetterPlace concept, which he did not know .
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Michel Kieffer
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by Michel Kieffer » 03/01/09, 18:12

Christophe, Riaz, Remundo, Lietseu, Elec, Gregconstruct… about the TGV

As you know, the consumption to overcome aerodynamic drag * varies with the square of the speed. In other words, a “TGV 200 km / h” consumes 2,56 x less ** of fuel than a “TGV 320 km / h”.
* aerodynamic drag is commonly called " parasitic trail ».
** (320.200) p2 = 2,56

In reality, the economy is further improved by the considerable reduction in the mass of the motors: the power to overcome parasitic drag is a function of the cube of speed. This gives us an installed power for a “TGV 200 km / h” 4,1 x less *** than the power installed in a “TGV 320 km / h”. Clearly the engines are 4 x less large!
*** (320.200) p3 = 4,1

We must add to the " parasitic drag power "(Ptp) the power necessary to overcome the rolling forces or" rolling drag »(Ptr). For airplanes, the rolling drag is replaced by the " induced drag »By the lift of the wing (Pti).

But that's not all, we must also take into account the mechanical efficiency of the installation (Rm).
This gives us with Pm = power supplied by the motor:

Pm.Rm = Ptp + Ptr for land vehicles and Ptp + Pti for airplanes

It is important to know that Ptr and Pti are negligible compared to Ptp for high speeds (speeds greater than 160 km / h approximately).

… And we can conclude, as the saying goes very well Riaz . " speed, here is the enemy! "*, And his prognosis for" low speed green TGV "(TGVBV?) Seems to me, to the chagrin of the" hurry ", frankly realistic!

* The slogan of MATHIS automobiles was " weight, that's the enemy! ", The circle is complete !

Let's go back to the consumption of the TGV, I'm in the middle of it but it's progressing… At this stage, I am concentrating on the formatting of information. A good part consists in describing the calculation method (as for this calculation, it is a group work of some members of the association "interaction").

See you soon and above all thank you for your encouragement

Michel

PS: excuse me for the slightly harsh teacher side but I would like to limit the risk of non-comprehension for a possible uninitiated reader!

PS: see also the document "quality of other means of transport" in the aero part of the site http://www.cocyane.com , this document will later be the subject of a fun and much more complete comic

PS: Christophe or Riaz: could you tell me, if you find it, the "TGV conso reflection" carried out in the past?
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by Christophe » 03/01/09, 18:27

RIAZ wrote:The poet is Brassens,
Nothing comes to my mind for butchers, but on the other hand, for appetizers ...


Really? Strange even with this? Image

Otherwise good reflection on the TGV (I understand pkoi the .pdf is empty now) but it should not be limited to CO2 (biased in France because of nuclear), the ideal would be to calculate in kWh per km in PRIMARY ENERGY taking into account the efficiency of the nuclear power plant (35%), line losses but above all transformation losses.

Do you know the physical conditions of acceleration of a TGV, its average mass, its SCx as well as the efficiency of its engines? And above all: its filling rate?

Michel Kieffer wrote:PS: Christophe or Riaz: could you tell me, if you find it, the "TGV conso reflection" carried out in the past?


It did not directly concern the TGV but trains in general.

I have already found this: https://www.econologie.com/forums/cout-energ ... t2507.html
(SNCF eco comparator scam) and this: https://www.econologie.com/comparatif-ec ... -3492.html

Try to see if you are luckier than me: https://www.econologie.com/forums/search.php
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by Christophe » 03/01/09, 18:40

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by Michel Kieffer » 03/01/09, 19:50

Riaz,

Yes to your comments and questions.

Michel
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