Ban on new thermal cars in 2035: Germany changes its mind!

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
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Re: Ban on new thermal cars in 2035: Germany changes its mind!




by NCSH » 12/03/23, 09:56

Forhorse wrote:
NCSH wrote:
The system using liquid fuels and internal combustion engines, on the other hand, has nothing to prove: it has worked for more than 60 years without significant problems.


Except every oil slick (to name just one of many oil problems)

Oil slicks, big and small, there weren't hundreds of them.

Unlike crude oil spills, in the case of "accidents" with refined, therefore "light" petroleum products, there is a lot of evaporation.

In addition, synthetic products contain much less if not no aromatics, which are the most harmful molecules.

I am not writing that there would be no problem, but that they will be less serious for the environment.
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Re: Ban on new thermal cars in 2035: Germany changes its mind!




by phil59 » 12/03/23, 10:47

NCSH wrote:
phil59 wrote:
NCSH wrote:
an electric part, especially for daily mobility, small urban delivery trucks, utility vehicles for the most part...

and for another part, essentially concerning long-distance mobility, often provided by a family-type vehicle, by thermal engines which avoid multiple stops to recharge, extending the duration of long journeys.



You don't drive an EV, you can't imagine how easy it is to do 500-1000 km in an EV.

You raise by your words the size of car batteries, so that the manufacturers can convince you!While it is already largely feasible with a good VE.

The evolution will be more car profiles that can consume less than 10 kWh per hundred km, ie less energy than a liter of super, for example.

I wonder why many talk about taking a long EV ride, when most rarely exceed 300 km ...

With a mid-range family car model, it is almost impossible for you to make stages of 200 km, certainly while driving at 130 km/h, with an average on the route which has difficulty exceeding 80 km/h from made countless steps to recharge.

With an entry-level car model, accessible by leasing to the penniless middle classes whose hand is forced to buy electric (such as the new Renault 5, 4, the Spring, etc.), the size of the battery can barely cover 200 km at 110 km/h, which makes long journeys an expedition: remember the example of a 600 km journey, Paris-Bordeaux traveled in 12 H, i.e. an average 50 km/h.

Only the heavy and expensive ultra-profiled Tesla-type sedans cannot, thanks to 90-100 kWh batteries weighing 600 kg, claim to make stages of 300, even 400 km, and even then, in rolling "on eggs" at 110, which is an aberration when we have such a potential for acceleration...

In short, a sanitized world, which will increasingly discourage people from making long journeys...

Which represent 20 to 25% of the km traveled on average by car fleets, counting from more than 100 km.

s
Well, to make a trip of about 1150 km, by EV, we can do that, in a little less than 14H, checked on the way there, and on the way back, in late December on the way, and back in early January, with 4 adults in the car, and no skinny ones, closer to 400 kg of passenger than 300, and without playing on arrival at 0 battery, we could still do more than 100 km.

And we weren't in Tesla.

Thermal cars, even if they are 20 years old, are compliant, why destroy them? they have their place, provided that the EV fleet can increase to 1/3 of the vehicles.

And again, no one talks about noise pollution.
This is an aspect that should not be overlooked.

For me, you just have to offer a much wider range of EVs than thermal ones, so that it regulates itself.

Many of my colleagues are not in the EV, some shy, normal, to discover, in second vehicle, and some have taken the plunge, main vehicle in electric.
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Re: Ban on new thermal cars in 2035: Germany changes its mind!




by NCSH » 12/03/23, 11:22

phil59 wrote:
With an entry-level car model, accessible by leasing to the penniless middle classes whose hand is forced to buy electric (such as the new Renault 5, 4, the Spring, etc.), the size of the battery can barely cover 200 km at 110 km/h, which makes long journeys an expedition: remember the example of a 600 km journey, Paris-Bordeaux traveled in 12 H, i.e. an average 50 km/h.

Only the heavy and expensive ultra-profiled Tesla-type sedans cannot, thanks to 90-100 kWh batteries weighing 600 kg, claim to make stages of 300, even 400 km, and even then, in rolling "on eggs" at 110, which is an aberration when we have such a potential for acceleration...

In short, a sanitized world, which will increasingly discourage people from making long journeys...

Which represent 20 to 25% of the km traveled on average by car fleets, counting from more than 100 km.

s
Well, to make a trip of about 1150 km, by EV, we can do that, in a little less than 14H, checked on the way there, and on the way back, in late December on the way, and back in early January, with 4 adults in the car, and no skinny ones, closer to 400 kg of passenger than 300, and without playing on arrival at 0 battery, we could still do more than 100 km.
And we weren't in Tesla.

Thermal cars, even if they are 20 years old, are compliant, why destroy them? they have their place, provided that the EV fleet can increase to 1/3 of the vehicles.

And again, no one talks about noise pollution.
This is an aspect that should not be overlooked.

For me, you just have to offer a much wider range of EVs than thermal ones, so that it regulates itself.

Many of my colleagues are not in the EV, some shy, normal, to discover, in second vehicle, and some have taken the plunge, main vehicle in electric.[/quote]



It is precisely to this winter journey, the stages of which did not exceed 200 km, to which I refer.
Average for 1150 km of journey and 14 hours: barely 80 km/h.
We are used to much better thermals, even when driving at legal speeds.

The problem is not only from the individual point of view: moving from point A to point B, but the hordes of tourists who cross France and other countries "at the same time" during departures and returns from vacation.

In the long term, only with electric cars, this then becomes a crippling problem.
And so, a technical dead end.
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Re: Ban on new thermal cars in 2035: Germany changes its mind!




by Obamot » 12/03/23, 11:53

NCSH wrote:In the long term, only with electric cars, this then becomes a crippling problem.
And so, a technical dead end. [/i]
Isn't the major way out hydrogen?
We still need to prepare for it as soon as possible. That's why I repeat above what the analyst of the video says: "whatever we do we won't make it"because we will never be ready in time... It would be well to develop several channels, if technically feasible, to get everyone to agree, it's a heavy task in this world of mediocracy and ties of interest...
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Re: Ban on new thermal cars in 2035: Germany changes its mind!




by NCSH » 12/03/23, 12:09

Obamot wrote:
NCSH wrote:In the long term, only with electric cars, this then becomes a crippling problem.
And so, a technical dead end. [/i]
The only way out, isn't it hydrogen?
We still need to prepare for it as soon as possible.

Hydrogen, in terms of tank capacities, makes it possible to improve this part of the problem, ie that of long journeys.

However, the countless zealous propagandists who have been singing the praises of the "Hydrogen Civilization" for more than 50 years never raise the sore question: that of purchasing costs which will remain higher, both for vehicles (individual , buses, trucks, etc.) and for supply chains for deliveries to service stations that will have to be built ex-nihilo, for which the costs will be much higher.

Everything is possible, but it will cost much more.
These figures do not circulate enough, maintaining the "legend" of a perfect fantasy world.

Here too, we will have to pass the "limbo"!
Beach sport, which will never be an Olympic sport (it's not serious enough): unlike the high jump where you have to go over the bar, it is here (and now) to go under the bar. ..
Last edited by NCSH the 12 / 03 / 23, 12: 31, 1 edited once.
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Re: Ban on new thermal cars in 2035: Germany changes its mind!




by Forhorse » 12/03/23, 12:16

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Re: Ban on new thermal cars in 2035: Germany changes its mind!




by phil59 » 12/03/23, 12:59

NCSH wrote:[



It is precisely to this winter journey, the stages of which did not exceed 200 km, to which I refer.
Average for 1150 km of journey and 14 hours: barely 80 km/h.
We are used to much better thermals, even when driving at legal speeds.

The problem is not only from the individual point of view: moving from point A to point B, but the hordes of tourists who cross France and other countries "at the same time" during departures and returns from vacation.

In the long term, only with electric cars, this then becomes a crippling problem.
And so, a technical dead end.


How long does this thermal trip take you? if however you drive so much in thermal ...

But a course of this type in thermals will be 12 hours minimum, with "human" stops.

Some will do it in 10H, without any stop, or almost.

Put almost 2 hours more, on an exceptional trip, like this one, bôf, it's not the disaster!

If we did it every week, yes, it might be restrictive, but there, for one exception, people who are ready to do this course in twingo, it doesn't change much.

PS; I said 14 p.m., because it's closer to 14 p.m. than 13 p.m., but within a few minutes, taking less time to stretch your "legs", not for the car, it would have been very close to 13 p.m.

Well, when you don't want your dog anymore, you say he has rabies...
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Re: Ban on new thermal cars in 2035: Germany changes its mind!




by sicetaitsimple » 12/03/23, 13:42

phil59 wrote:Put almost 2 hours more, on an exceptional trip, like this one, bôf, it's not the disaster!

It's a bit of the reflection that I was doing, one has the impression when reading NCSH that putting 2 hours more on an occasional journey of a thousand km is an unacceptable social regression.
Even if the comparison may seem lame, when I was still working I spent about 50 minutes from door to door every morning and every evening, 20 minutes on foot and 30 minutes by train. Almost 2 hours a day. Five days a week. I didn't die...
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Re: Ban on new thermal cars in 2035: Germany changes its mind!




by Obamot » 12/03/23, 17:01

NCSH wrote:Everything is possible, but it will cost much more.

You mean it will be "more real" conditions, the cost of the renewable ticket?

https://actu.epfl.ch/news/produire-de-l ... r-ambiant/ It's only a beginning...
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Re: Ban on new thermal cars in 2035: Germany changes its mind!




by SixK » 13/03/23, 01:38

I believe that the Germans very quickly understood that with the electric they were shooting themselves in the foot.
They talked about electricity for 6 months and very quickly they talked about hydrogen.

From my point of view, on electricity, all Western manufacturers will be swept away by the Chinese.
It will be like cellphones (anyone remember Nokia!?)
They have the rare earths, the batteries and the know-how.
MG is already releasing electrics 10 euros cheaper than European models.
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