New transport: innovations, engines, pollution, technologies, policies, organization ...Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

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Christophe
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Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

Unread Messageby Christophe » 02/02/20, 09:43

A summary table that compares, well at the wheel, 3 energy storage technologies from renewable energies:
    Conventional charge / discharge battery
    Fuel cell via Hydrogen
    Biofuel (BtL) in a heat engine

Too bad, for information, it lacks oil (which has a cost UPSTREAM of the well itself ...) but also fuel cells with integrated reformer but also CO2 (gray in particular) ...

Batterie_VS_H2_VS_Biocarburant.jpg
Batterie_VS_H2_VS_Biocarburant.jpg (146.43 KiB) Consulted 332 times
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Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

Unread Messageby moinsdewatt » 02/02/20, 11:17

So batteries have a royal future ahead of them, right?
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Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

Unread Messageby Christophe » 02/02/20, 11:44

If we consider only the performance of the storage chain yes ... but the reality is not as simple as long as we want (and know) to make a coherent analysis!

To start the costs per kWh stored are not in this table (but we can easily find them elsewhere ...)

As I have said for a long time: the return on use of renewable energies is less important than that of fossil fuels since the energy source is free. However, this yield must be linked to the process costs (installation and maintenance)!

A low yield associated with a low cost of "capture" of renewable energy is not problematic since the renewable potential is enormous and far exceeds the needs of humanity!

Finally, such storage of renewable energy at a reduced price makes it possible to fill their main shortcoming: intermittence ... and therefore ultimately improve their profitability ...
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Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

Unread Messageby Janic » 02/02/20, 16:15

Finally, such storage of renewable energy at a reduced price makes it possible to fill their main shortcoming: intermittence ... and therefore ultimately improve their profitability ...
except that it is this storage that is precisely the problem. It's a bit like building cars without having roads.
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Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

Unread Messageby Christophe » 02/02/20, 16:40

Janic wrote:
Finally, such storage of renewable energy at a reduced price makes it possible to fill their main shortcoming: intermittence ... and therefore ultimately improve their profitability ...
except that it is this storage that is precisely the problem. It's a bit like building cars without having roads.


Punishment: reread my previous message 3 times and reformulate it ... : Cheesy:
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Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 02/02/20, 18:26

At the risk of having to copy your "previous message" 3 times, I find some strange things in it:
the return on the use of renewable energies is less important than that of fossil fuels, since the energy source is free.
I naively believed that oil, gas or coal were also free, since nobody makes them ...? Then, the cost of capturing renewable energy is not that negligible, it seems ...
Perhaps it is an awkward expression which does not correspond to what I can understand ...
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Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

Unread Messageby Christophe » 02/02/20, 18:52

Ahmed wrote:I naively believed that oil, gas or coal were also free, since nobody makes them ...?


You don't believe my son!

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Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

Unread Messageby Christophe » 02/02/20, 18:54

Ahmed wrote:Then, the cost of capturing renewable energy is not that negligible, it seems ...


Did I say it was? I simply said that it is better to store renewable energy with a lower yield and a low cost than a high yield with high cost ...

That's all!

Ahmed wrote:Perhaps it is an awkward expression which does not correspond to what I can understand ...


I hope I have enlightened you?
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Re: Comparative Battery VS Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) VS Biofuel BtL (Combustion)

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 02/02/20, 19:25

No need to speak louder: I have no hearing problem! 8)
On the first point, the rent effect exists, of course, but it also applies to renewable energies: the sun does not shine everywhere as much, nor does the wind blow fairly where you want ...
On the second, I find it hard to follow ... so without comments. What interests me is the advantage of the battery over the fuel cell ...
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