Reviews of motor scouring cleaning products: bardahl, spheretech, facom ...

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Reviews of motor scouring cleaning products: bardahl, spheretech, facom ...




by Christophe » 08/11/19, 19:34

Following some remarks on this subject: inventions, innovations / eelectrorheology-treatment-of-electric-diesel-t16181.html I would like take stock of the different products of the slag or engine cleaning trade

The choice is quite important (at least in the packaging because I guess the products are the same or almost ...) and I would like to have some feedback ... concrete ...

This mainly concerns diesel used in low load conditions (mainly urban cycles) and / or by people who do not respect the mechanics (no respect of the heating time, 10 km approximately at 70 km / h at least, for pull in like conn **. asses ...) ... but also all diesel engines that exceed or feel the 200 000 km (100 000 km at Renault! : Mrgreen:)

Good to start I found this article of Auto Moto really good, complete and objective enough: https://www.auto-moto.com/actualite/env ... 58102.html

DECREASE YOUR DIESEL

With antipollution standards, the race to power and consumption ever lower, this engine of agricultural origin has become a marvel of engineering, precision mechanics, whose operation is disrupted by the smallest grain of sand. Small repeated trips, traffic jams, poor diesel quality and lack of maintenance promote fouling and therefore malfunctions. Nuisances that can occur very quickly: the injectors start to foul from 20 000 km. A simple deposition of 5 microns on an injector (4 times less thick than a hair) reduces its flow by approximately 25%, with the consequence of altering the shortest injections. On a modern diesel, it can, indeed, be up to 8 successive spraying phases. If the post-injection, intended to regenerate the particulate filter, is bad, it clogs slowly.

By clogging, it creates a back-pressure to the exhaust, causing an excess of exhaust gas recirculation via the EGR valve ... which clogs in turn. This results in progressive clogging of the manifold and the intake valves. In short, the engine lacks air and it causes jolts, power loss, increased consumption and increased pollutant emissions. If the disease gets worse, this "cholesterol" can lead to "infarction". Understand: the breakage of the turbo, or even the engine breakage. And the most serious is that your "doctor", aka the mechanic, sees nothing because his diagnostic bag is unable to detect these functional drifts. It equates, for example, the lack of power to a faulty turbo pressure sensor. Only new thermodynamic analysis tools such as Ecoperformance diagnostics at Norauto, Ecoclean at Speedy or Ecodiag at Autodistribution and Bosch Car Service are able to detect these mechanical problems, which are invisible to the electronic eye of the bag.

PREVENTIVE

The best weapon to fight against the fouling of diesels is prevention. Like the excess human cholesterol, avoid nibbling, understand small repeated trips, especially if your car is equipped with a particulate filter. If the regenerations do not have time to be done, the FAP may clog and the engine breaks. The diesel fuel of the post-injection, intended to burn the particles in the filter, will remain in the cylinder, then run off to mix with oil. And when the diluted oil exceeds the maximum level, there is a risk of engine runaway, often destructive if we do not react promptly by causing stalling. In short, if your car only serves you to drive the children to school, go to the supermarket or go to your workplace in the traffic jams, run away from the diesel!

The other way to preserve your health: get him to play sports. No need to play a rally special; for normal use, a scrubbing once a month (once a week if you are in traffic jams from Monday to Friday) on a highway or motorway is sufficient ... to three conditions: have previously carried out a rise in engine temperature (oil at 90 ° C) for approximately 10 km, drive at a speed greater than 3 000 rpm (EGR valve closed) to allow the engine to breathe only fresh air, and apply sufficient engine load. Clearly: speed up to increase the temperature in the exhaust pipe. A slope of a few kilometers climbs the 3e or 4e report, for example. Last tip: use a good quality fuel and / or specific additives. Petroleum advertising in this area is not so deceptive as that. The additives they add to the Premium gasoil do not absorb the existing fouling, but they avoid its formation. Same for additives sold in small bottles.

THE CURATIVE

When good "driving hygiene" is not enough, it may be necessary to resort to heavier curative treatments. For starters, let's twist a so-called miracle technique: descaling with hydrogen. Injected into the air intake, the hydrogen has no action on the fouling of the injectors, causing almost all the ills. It also has no cleaning properties on the intake manifold. On high-performance machines, producing 30 ppm hydrogen, the rise in the combustion temperature is about 30 ° C: insufficient to cause the effect "pyrolysis" claimed by the manufacturers of this type of device. They allow, certainly, a cleaning of the piston heads, but not a scrubbing of the engine. If, during treatment, the car no longer smokes, the smoke comes back later. In short, you do not treat throat cancer with fumigation. In reality, an active cleaning must begin with the effective stripping of the injectors. In this regard, there is a multitude of products, but the majority acts only preventively due to their low concentration of active compounds. True curative products, such as Spheretech injector cleaner, are used in the workshop. We are starting to find it in the shelves of auto centers, but it is relatively expensive (70 € the can of 1,5 l). Same thing for the EGR valve. The treatments offered in the shelves by major brands of additives are more preventive than curative. Atherosclerosis is not treated with phytosterol yoghurt. Concentrated products can be relatively effective if the fouling is light. Beyond this, the dismantling and mechanical cleaning of the valve (trichlorethylene) must be carried out, or even replaced. Same protocol for a turbocharger with variable geometry, whose blades are blocked because of soot.

Remains the case of the particle filter, probably the most delicate and fragile, because it is at the end of the chain. Its survival depends on the temperature that can be obtained during the regeneration phases. Normally, the carbon particles retained in the substrate burn at 620 ° C, a level almost impossible to reach under normal driving conditions. To achieve this, the treatments use the same additive as PSA in its HDi engines. The eolys makes it possible to lower the combustion temperature of the particles trapped in the 100 ° C filter. Cleaning is therefore easier. Unfortunately, the eolys is manufactured by a single laboratory (Solvay) and is expensive (about 50 € / l). Cheap FAP cleaners therefore contain few and are therefore not very effective. Bosal Power FAP is more concentrated. It can save a DPF if it is not completely dirty. If it is too late, only disassembly, then mechanical cleaning (or replacement) may release the exhaust. Beware of the tempting promises: the products that really work cost around 100 € per treatment and must often be used in the workshop with specific manipulations. Console yourself by saying that a replacement of injectors, EGR valve, turbo or FAP costs much more. Finally, the cleaning of a diesel has beneficial aspects on our portfolio and on the environment. With a properly breathing motor, consumption can drop from 5 to 10% and the pollution drop dramatically. From 2017, preventive maintenance and eco-maintenance will be required to pass the "5 gas" pollution test for future technical inspection.


Obviously they are not convinced by the cleanings with hydrogen (HHO technology ...), it was predictable given the homeopathic quantities injected (cons should clear me the calculation of 30 ppm H2 ...? In g H2 by g O2 / air how much is it?)

So my personal experience: there is 25 000 km I used a Bardhal injector cleaner on my 2 2005 diesel engine (saab optimized fiat basis) from 210 000 km.

Manufacturer card: https://www.bardahl.fr/fr-fr/nos-produi ... eur-diesel

The product smelled of kerosene : Cheesy:... I would say that I did not notice any big differences, I must say that I was already at 5.5-5.6 L / 100km and no or little fumes (I have a FAP with 2 temperature probes, I I had to change one so I know ...) ... Maybe a little less cold engine noise and better stability ... but it did not last very long ...

At Bardhal there is also an 5 product in 1:



Only when we read here or the feedback (including this video) we see very little scientific or mechanical rigor ...

All are rather subjective (less noise, less conso, it does not work, so much noise * ...) so I would like to see the engine parts BEFORE and AFTER cleaning ... Not necessarily need to disassemble, with an endoscopic camera, we should be able to see some essential parts, right? Has anyone ever seen a return of this type?


* scrubbing will not make a miracle, a damaged engine will not repair itself (in this regard, I am surprised that the remétallisants still exist ... but it's not the debate ...)

Manufacturers of these products should do endoscopy under bailiff before / after ... or at least some auto journalists!

Today, 25 km after the 000st injector cleaning, I bought 1 Facom products from EL.rc ... 2 € for the small 8 ml "Injector cleaner", 300 € for the large 20 ml "Cleaner Powerful equivalent of 475 in 5 "(we applaud loudly) ... the big one is therefore much more expensive, normal it is an all in 1.

Surprisingly the Bardhal was doing 1L and darting in 30L, dilution ratio = 3,33%

The Facom makes 300 ml to dilute in 50 to 70L ... (my tank is 58L), dilution ratio = 0,52% (that's 6 times less ... and I do not think the facom is 6 times more concentrated : Cheesy: )

facom_nettoyant_injecteur_moteur_diesel.jpg
facom_nettoyant_injecteur_moteur_diesel.jpg (105.21 KIO) Viewed 62099 times


Notice injector cleaner (the other impossible to take a picture in 1 times but it's kif kif ... except it also specifies to type well into the engine (3 4000 RPM) while driving at low speed ( of box) : Cheesy: ):

facom_2.jpg
facom_2.jpg (141.03 KIO) Accessed 62099 times


Mystery composition:

facom_3.jpg
facom_3.jpg (252.65 KIO) Accessed 62099 times


facom_4.jpg
facom_4.jpg (246.26 KIO) Accessed 62099 times


It's FACOM, it should be quality! : Mrgreen:

Otherwise, cheaper and maybe also more effective, I strongly advise to make full with 5L of gasoline from time to time, especially in winter: eat-less-auto / car diesel-eat-less-with-a-little-of-sp95-t5849.html I say 5L because you must not exceed 10% ... if you drive in vans, you can put more! : Cheesy:
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Re: Review of cleaning / slag removal products (Bardhal, Facom ...)




by GuyGadebois » 08/11/19, 19:45

I answered indirectly on another thread by saying I trust "Premium" fuels loaded with additives one in four fill-ups. Bardal, Winns, Facom and others with their staggering liter prices can be seen.
https://www.auto-moto.com/pratique/carb ... 22352.html
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Re: Review of cleaning / slag removal products (Bardhal, Facom ...)




by Christophe » 08/11/19, 19:47

And a question, fundamental in fact ...

Why do not tankers include these products (even at low doses: as a precaution) in fuels systematically at the pump?

Since these are clearly refined products and Bardhal no more than Facom have a refinery of their own! (nor Lec ... c by the way but this is another debate)

: Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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Re: Review of cleaning / slag removal products (Bardhal, Facom ...)




by Christophe » 08/11/19, 19:50

GuyGadebois wrote:I answered indirectly on another thread by saying I trust "Premium" fuels loaded with additives one in four fill-ups. Bardal, Winns, Facom and others with their staggering liter prices can be seen.
https://www.auto-moto.com/pratique/carb ... 22352.html


You just answered my question ... assuming it's the same additives ...

There is also a lack of study and hard evidence: the same engine, same region, same type of taxiing will it really clog up more with a conventional diesel than a premium? I ask to see!

So this afternoon, the Facom I diluted to premium diesel ... I should not have? : Cheesy:

I did not dare the 5L gasoline and more but it tickled me! : Mrgreen:
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Re: Review of cleaning / slag removal products (Bardhal, Facom ...)




by Christophe » 08/11/19, 19:55

GuyGadebois wrote:https://www.auto-moto.com/pratique/carburant-ordinaire-vs-premium-avantages-de-total-excellium-222352.html


This link does not prove anything, it just looks like a copy of the marketing department Total! : Cheesy:

I would like to see the study report of 6000h + 8500h of operation ... compared with a "non-premium" motor ...

14 500 h for a car engine is pretty good ... 50 km / h average is 725 000 km ...

A modern car engine is designed for 5000, 6000 or 7000h depending on the engine ... not more ... (life of bearings for example ...)

The test may have been done on an industrial engine ... a truck can be?

Industrial motors are dimensioned for 20 000h (with possibility of complete refit for another cycle of 20 000h) ...
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Re: Review of cleaning / slag removal products (Bardhal, Facom ...)




by GuyGadebois » 08/11/19, 19:57

Christophe wrote:
GuyGadebois wrote:https://www.auto-moto.com/pratique/carburant-ordinaire-vs-premium-avantages-de-total-excellium-222352.html


This link does not prove anything, it just looks like a copy of the marketing department Total! : Cheesy:

I would like to see the study report of 6000h + 8500h of operation ... compared with a "non-premium" motor ...

14 500 h for a car engine is pretty good ... 50 km / h average is 725 000 km ...

I have not really searched, I took the first link came (basically).
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Re: Review of cleaning / slag removal products (Bardhal, Facom ...)




by Christophe » 08/11/19, 19:59

Well, look better :)

The 1er link is not necessarily the best (quite the contrary ...)

Find us this famous 14000h study with lots of comparative photos! 8)
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Re: Review of cleaning / slag removal products (Bardhal, Facom ...)




by GuyGadebois » 08/11/19, 20:01

Christophe wrote:Well, look better :)

The 1er link is not necessarily the best (quite the contrary ...)

I know but I'm preparing dinner ...
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“It is better to mobilize your intelligence on bullshit than to mobilize your bullshit on intelligent things. (J.Rouxel)
"By definition the cause is the product of the effect". (Tryphion)
"360 / 000 / 0,5 is 100 million and not 72 million" (AVC)
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Re: Review of cleaning / slag removal products (Bardhal, Facom ...)




by Christophe » 08/11/19, 20:21

Uh do you believe on facebook or twitter here? : Mrgreen: : Shock:

I will delete these last message 2 once the discussion is distributed ...
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Re: Review of cleaning / slag removal products (Bardhal, Facom ...)




by Christophe » 08/11/19, 20:24

Christophe wrote:Find us this famous 14000h study with lots of comparative photos! 8)


In this regard, every X months a few years ago, Moto Revue dismantled a motorcycle engine fully (after I believe in the 40 50 000 km), this obviously to measure the different wear of certain parts ...

It was very interesting and quite impressive, all the pieces were positioned on a general photo!

I'll see if I find one of these items!
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