To 100% hydrogen in Iceland

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moinsdewatt
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Re: Towards 100% hydrogen in Iceland




by moinsdewatt » 22/07/15, 19:34

SixK wrote:Super report at the moment even on Arte, they talk about the Island which aims for 100% hydrogen for 2030 in order to completely replace hydrocarbons.
Currently they equip the buses, soon they will equip private vehicles and ultimately trawlers.
Hydrogen is produced by geothermal energy, so no production pollution :)

France is developing a program with Iceland, their goal is to make hydrogen with water which would be used to cool nuclear power plants.

Shell is a partner with Iceland for the development of the program.

Well it looks pretty good island, here is where I could go when France will implode in a few years ...
Too bad they have a horrible accent;)

SixK


10 years later we can say that it has flopped.

And then the big crisis of 2008 went through.
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by I Citro » 22/07/15, 22:41

Thank you moinsdewatt for this unearthing of subject. 8)

The knowledge and information available 10 years later allows us to paint a very different picture ...

I find it difficult to find an economic and ecological viability for the hydrogen economy, and I would like to relaunch the debate ...
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by moinsdewatt » 23/07/15, 12:02

citro wrote:
I find it difficult to find an economic and ecological viability for the hydrogen economy, and I would like to relaunch the debate ...


Let's see what the Toyota Mirai will give to Japan.
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Re: Towards 100% hydrogen in Iceland




by Leo Maximus » 23/07/15, 19:27

SixK wrote:... Hydrogen is produced by, so no production pollution ...

Not quite.

The Icelanders say there is no pollution in production and the Japanese say the opposite. But what are these damn Japanese guys doing in there? Quite simply because it was the Japanese, notably MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) who supplied the geothermal power plants to the Icelanders because the latter do not have the technology.

MHI, Fuji, Toshiba, among others, are the world leaders in geothermal energy and they all say that the production of hydrogen from geothermal energy produces significant pollution (even in Iceland : Lol:).
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by Leo Maximus » 23/07/15, 19:54

moinsdewatt wrote:Let's see what the Toyota Mirai will give to Japan.

The Mirai is the visible part of the HySUT association, the aim of which was to put cars on the market at PAC H2 and to install a distribution network from 2015. The objective has been achieved.

I give the HySUT link (in English): http://hysut.or.jp/en/profile/index.html
http://hysut.or.jp/index.html (in Japanese)

Air Liquide of Japan is one of the HySUT partners.

There is almost nothing on the subject in the French press, apart from this article by Libé:
http://www.liberation.fr/economie/2015/ ... ne_1233217
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by moinsdewatt » 23/07/15, 20:44

Read the end of the Liberation article well:

Today, more than 90% of hydrogen comes from fossil fuels. According to Meti's plans, it will not begin to "go green" until 2030, when the archipelago will have a clean sector incorporating efficient renewable energies. Finally, the future is not for tomorrow.
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by I Citro » 23/07/15, 23:07

The hydrogen sector is primarily intended to sell fossil fuels ...

The production of hydrogen by electrolysis of water, which would theoretically be the cleanest way to make hydrogen, if this electricity comes from renewable sources,
requires 50 to 85 kWh of electricity to produce 1kg of hydrogen

1kg of hydrogen contains 33kWh of potential energy.

But the use of this energy in a fuel cell gives back less than 90% and sometimes barely 75%

Vehicles are considered to consume 1kg of hydrogen to cover 100km, i.e. 33kwh

However, a hydrogen vehicle is nothing other than an electric vehicle whose source of electricity is a fuel cell ...

The TESLA Model S, equivalent in size to the Toyota Mirai is 4 times more powerful but only consumes 20kWh per 100km

This represents a huge difference in performance ...
Must we use 85kWh of electricity (preferably from renewable origin) to run a Mirai over 100km, or use this same amount of energy to fill the entire Tesla battery and drive 400km ...

Especially since the TESLA has been marketed for more than 2 years worldwide and recharges on any socket outlet at public or industrial tariff or on the network of Superchargers deployed at its expense by the manufacturer which offers free of charge recharging to its customers, recharging takes place between 20 minutes and less than an hour ...

Preparations for the hydrogen economy have been underway for many years. It started with "relaxation" of safety standards which originally considered that transporting 500g of hydrogen required precautionary measures contrary to its use in a fast vehicle ...

All technical, economic, ecological data are final. : Shock:
The hydrogen economy is not viable. : Arrowl:
... unless you subsidize it

There is a race between energy storage on battery and energy storage in the form of hydrogen. But the battery is already operational and economically viable ...
All that remains is the question of the recharging time that many research laboratories think they have solved thanks to nanotechnologies, to promise us batteries, hybrid between the battery and the capacitor, rechargeable in a few seconds.
These batteries will be in point before the development of the hydrogen sector. :?:
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by Leo Maximus » 24/07/15, 23:47

moinsdewatt wrote:Read the end of the Liberation article well:

Today, more than 90% of hydrogen comes from fossil fuels. According to Meti's plans, it will not begin to "go green" until 2030, when the archipelago will have a clean sector incorporating efficient renewable energies. Finally, the future is not for tomorrow.

Of course, this cannot be done overnight. But 2030 is very close.

Currently in the USA, 4 out of 10 electric cars run ... on coal.
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by Leo Maximus » 25/07/15, 00:01

citro wrote:... The TESLA Model S, equivalent in size to the Toyota Mirai is 4 times more powerful but only consumes 20kWh per 100km

Signed Elon Musk, who is afraid of the Miraï ...

That does not make any sense. It reminds me of the false propaganda that accompanied the launch of Volt / Ampéra.

4 times more powerful which makes 300 kW. The battery of the Tesla S (!) With a capacity of 85 kWh would give an autonomy of 17 minutes with these 300 kW.

We have a consumption of 20 kWh provided that we use these 300 kW as little as possible and I'm not talking about heating ...
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by I Citro » 26/07/15, 23:17

Apart from a speed ring, it is IMPOSSIBLE to use 300kW continuously, and a fortiori the 700hp that the Tesla delivers in a high-end version ... Unless you are a serious offender on the road ...

When heating, a power of 5kW is more than enough, and once it reaches the desired temperature, maintaining it in temperature consumes much less. Tesla using a heat pump, this consumption is reduced depending on the COP or the EER of the latter between 2 and 4 times, at first sight ...

I don't think Elon Musk is afraid of Toyota and the Mirai. Image
The opposite, however ... Image
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