The thermal hybrid / electric and generators

[Woodcutter]

[...] For the efficiency of heat engines:
http://www.ifp.fr/IFP/fr/decouvertes/cl ... htm(/quote]

Consequently, compared to the real power of the fuel, we only have 40% more power (in the best of cases).

In optimal operating conditions, an automobile engine offers today a maximum efficiency of around 36% for a petrol engine and 42% for a diesel engine. [...] These optimal conditions however correspond to a use of the engine with high load.
[...] However, as a general rule, motor vehicles are used on short journeys in built-up areas, which ultimately results in stress on engines with low loads. Under these conditions, the yield is degraded with values ​​reaching only 15%.

Therein lies one of the great advantages of the series hybrid: it can only work within the maximum efficiency range of the engine! In addition, systems such as the TIGERS or the BMW Turbo-steamer can make it possible to further increase the efficiency by recovering energy where it leaves, that is to say in heat in the exhaust for half.

[...] Then, the addition of the other organs in series makes fall the returns (it is mathematical, the returns series multiply).

For the parallel returns, it is either the first return, or the second…

Yes, but for electrical equipment, these yields can be very high.

[...] Initially, it is results of consequent decreases in pollution which interest us, even zero pollution.

Not at all ! The most important thing today is to reduce by all means our CO2 emissions, which are directly linked to our energy consumption ...

Furthermore, by reducing consumption, mathematically less pollutants are produced, unless the current emission ratios are significantly degraded.

[...] One will never arrive at results such as the PAC, the water motor (or motor with H2), or an engine using a Pantone technology…

The water motor does not exist ...
For the Pantone, do you have results of analysis of exhaust gases in standard cycle (for comparison) to communicate to us?

For the heat pumps, I agree (that's why I spoke about it and modified my post), because it would even be the only electric generator to be really non-polluting and with a fairly good performance (> 50%) but it is far from being completed and the problem of the energy vector H2 remains to be solved, which you evoke below ...

[...] To avoid new polemics (or can be to create some, hehe !! ), the creation of hydrogen is more profitable if it is made from hydrocarbons (most hydrogenated chains: oil and gas) than from water. So, for my part, hydrogen can always be considered as a product from the Fossil Energy sector, even if it can also be by other means…

Let's say that it is possible to produce it with electricity from renewable sources, but it is obvious that for the moment, the production chain of H2 wastes too much energy, even if it is a very energetic fuel in liquid state, therefore interesting for mobile applications such as cars.

Did you read that?

Now, some small questions:
- how do you manage to recover the braking energy with only a hydrogen thermal engine, or a classic "Pantonized" fuel?
- How do you to travel in ZEV with these solutions? (It seems to me that the burning of H2 in an engine produces a little NOX ...)
- how do you manage power demand peaks (acceleration, slopes, ...) if you have decided to "down-size" as much as possible your heat engine (hydrogen or pantonized) that you use alone?

[sandijak]

An interesting French site for hybrid and electric vehicles:
http://www.newteon.com/www/home.html

Very interesting indeed! I saw on their site that they won a tender for 15 vehicles for the city of Cannes. Very encouraging if the municipalities FINALLY go green!

A full range of electric or hybrid vehicles (diesel and electric), utility or individuals is now available on the market.

NEWTEON operates Monaco, France and Europe.

In any case, Newteon has a good lead over the Cleanova which is on the one hand very expensive and on the other hand, not marketed before 2010 !! Vehicles with lithium batteries are the ideal solution today.

[ThierrySan]

Hello everyone,

Bucheron, when I speak of pollutant, I also speak and above all of CO2. Since CO2 is a greenhouse gas, it is therefore harmful to the environment and thus harmful to humans. Okay, I'll have to be clearer.

It is true that I forgot to answer your questions again. The only answer is obviously the hybrid.

However, I repeat my reasoning which was as follows:
- first, seek to reduce pollutants (particles, pollutants, lead and etc styles, NOX and finally COX).
- then, seek to reduce consumption, although this subject will no longer be really annoying in the immediate future since the pollutants would be negligible or even zero.
- finally, hybridize vehicles for better energy management, which would amply respond to the problem of consumption.

So, for me, the hybridization of vehicles and the research that has been carried out so far with grandiose results in energy management will only really be usable in a few years ...
To follow the direction of the research carried out!

[abyssin3]

The new APX lotus on natural engine :
Supposedly 10 min charge for 560Km of autonomy ...

[Woodcutter]

[...] However, I resume my reasoning which was as follows:
- first, seek to reduce pollutants (particles, pollutants, lead and etc styles, NOX and finally COX).
- then, seek to reduce consumption, although this subject will no longer be really annoying in the immediate future since the pollutants would be negligible or even zero.
- finally, hybridize vehicles for better energy management, which would amply respond to the problem of consumption. [...]

I do not agree on the order of the proposals ...
It is much more urgent to seek to reduce overall fuel consumption to limit CO2 production (COx? I don't see the point, there are only two, CO and CO2, and CO is not really a problem since the generalization of catalysts).
Lead has been gone for a very long time (1993 ).
Finally, you cannot assimilate CO2 to a "pollutant" which would be a side of the reaction like the others, a kind of "collateral damage", since it is part of the hydrocarbon oxidation equation ...
This is the only thing that cannot be reduced by proper "treatment", so it doesn't make sense to put it in the batch of other pollutants ...
The only way to decrease its production is to use less energy based on fossil hydrocarbons, that's all!

[Woodcutter]

The new APX lotus on natural engine :
Supposedly 10 min charge for 560Km of autonomy ...

Abyssinian, the post of electric cars, it's not here, I made another dedicated post ...

In addition, I fully agree with the analysis of Motor-Nature: for now, it's a bit of a joke to announce these types of figures, which are technically completely impossible ...

[Woodcutter]

[...] In any case, Newteon has a good lead on Cleanova which is on the one hand very expensive and on the other hand, not marketed before 2010 !! Vehicles with lithium batteries are the ideal solution today.

Do you have prizes for the Cleanova?
Can you tell me where you saw them, and where you saw the marketing dates?

[ThierrySan]

We don't already agree with the point which is the reduction in consumption ... You think one day you will be able to transport your whole family and consume just 1l per 100km ... It's utopia pure and simple !!
In addition, the consumption announced by the manufacturers is that of new cars. What about after 100000Km ?! Are we always in conditions to consume the least ?!

For me, the first result is to arrive at vehicles that produce little or no COx, as well as NOx, in addition to pollutants since we have to speak out. And, therefore, it is not by playing on subsidiary or secondary parameters that we achieve encouraging results ...

Voili, voilou

[Woodcutter]

[...] You think you will one day be able to transport your whole family and consume just 1l per 100km ... It's pure and simple utopia !!

Did I say that?

[...] In addition, the consumption announced by the manufacturers is that of new cars. What about after 100000Km ?! Are we always in conditions to consume the least ?!

Press tests of my current car gave 8.1 l in 1997 (oldest test I found) ...
Currently, at 145 km, my average is rather around 000 l, or even less.
The manufacturer's approval when it was launched in 1990 gave (with the old standards) 4.9 l / 6.5 l / 8.5 l for 90 km / h, 120 km / h and city.
Does that answer your question?

[...] For me, the first result is to arrive at vehicles which do not produce COx or very little, as well as NOx, in addition to pollutants since it is necessary to speak justly. And, therefore, it is not by playing on subsidiary or secondary parameters that we achieve encouraging results ...

Voili, voilou

And how do you do, clever fellow, not to produce "COx"with fuels based on carbon chains? Apart from reducing consumption, I see no solution ...
For the second time, CO is not no more a problem currently on cars, it is not worth inventing expressions out of who knows where that complicate matters.

[ThierrySan]

Where did I invent an expression ?! COx just like NOx is an ease of writing or language so as not to repeat CO2 and CO all the time, just like NO2, NO3, etc. It is simpler and it encompasses everything! No invention here ...

CO no longer a problem today? !!! Is that so! I did not know that there was no more death from the CO of the heat engines! It happened again recently but with a water heater !!
From the moment there is combustion, there is necessarily release of CO and CO2 (therefore COx), but if your engine is properly adjusted, it will release much less !! But there will always be !!!
You can take the test if you want (DON'T DO THIS, BECAUSE RISK OF IMMEDIATE DEATH !!!): you lock your car in the garage and let it run empty, then you come back after a quarter of hour or half an hour! You'll see very quickly, but call the ambulance before...

For your usual consumption, well done, it's perfect! But are the others like you today ?!