The car of the future

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
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sen-no-sen
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Re: The car of the future




by sen-no-sen » 05/02/19, 17:27

Christophe wrote:Disagree: a 250W engine will remain an engine of 250W ... After we can modify them to change the engine (kits exist) ...


If the motors are clamped ... it is that we can unclamp and sustain the assistance beyond 25 km / h.
There are tutorials here and there on the internet.
Several times I was "dropped off" on site by VAE while I was driving at 35 / 40km / h, and by people who did not seem to me to run on EPO.
After the de-clamping has the obvious consequence of limiting the autonomy and increase the wear of the engine.
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thibr
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Re: The car of the future




by thibr » 05/02/19, 20:36

sen-no-sen wrote:... to increase the wear of the motor.

in general they are brushless ... so wear is limited : Mrgreen:
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Re: The car of the future




by Christophe » 06/02/19, 09:20

sen-no-sen wrote:If the motors are clamped ... it is that we can unclamp and sustain the assistance beyond 25 km / h.
There are tutorials here and there on the internet.
Several times I was "dropped off" on site by VAE while I was driving at 35 / 40km / h, and by people who did not seem to me to run on EPO.
After the de-clamping has the obvious consequence of limiting the autonomy and increase the wear of the engine.


How can you be sure that the pedelecs that passed you had an unbridled engine and not an aftermarket engine?

You can actually "unleash" a brushless motor: by increasing (a little) its supply voltage.

This is only possible if:
a) the nominal voltage of the motor is lower than that of the battery (and generally this is not the case)
b) the controller can handle a higher voltage (usually this is not the case: a controller has a nominal voltage that corresponds to that of its engine: I have never seen a controller with choice of voltage)

So a 36V motor could certainly work "durably" at 48V but this implies greater technical constraints than a change of motor + controller ... to a more powerful 36V motor ...

I have been doing R&D in electric propulsion for 2 years, I don't think I'm wrong ...

On the other hand, which is quite easily feasible on most controllers, it is to shunt the PAS (detection of the movement of the pedals) to replace it with an accelerator (or a simple button) to first have a permant help and lift the limit 25km / h assistance ... which would allow, even with only 250W to exceed 25 km / h (but not uphill: one watt remains a watt ...) provided the motor has a fairly high kV ... (kV = RPM per volt)

In 2 cases we make illegal use on the road but good when we see scooters 85 km / h on the periphery ... I think there is worse in terms of compliance with the Highway Code! : Mrgreen:

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Re: The car of the future




by Ahmed » 06/02/19, 09:32

Yes, the usual and simplest unlocking consists in shunting the "bazaar"; this is what I was talking about above. The machine remains usable on the road without problem, but changes category and becomes subject to the related obligations (vehicle insurance, registration and helmet use) ...

Perhaps a change in the legislation would be wise in terms of power, since the limitation of speed of assistance to 25km / h is not, in my opinion, what penalizes the most the formula, but the lack of power in the ribs that does not hurt the average ... This would be especially true for faired tricycles, necessarily heavier.

Riding a scooter at such a speed is pretty suicidal! : roll:
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Re: The car of the future




by Christophe » 06/02/19, 09:52

Ahmed wrote:Perhaps a change in the legislation would be wise in terms of power, since the limitation of speed of assistance to 25km / h is not, in my opinion, what penalizes the most the formula, but the lack of power in the ribs that does not hurt the average ... This would be especially true for faired tricycles, necessarily heavier.

Riding a scooter at such a speed is pretty suicidal! : roll:


Yes that's what I've been trying to say for a few messages: a 250W motor, even unbridled in the sense of "pedal assistance" will remain a 250W motor ... therefore rather a very low power on the road ... and even if we unbridle it electrically, it will be difficult to exceed 500W without smoking ...

To have an order of magnitude, here is the technical sheet of the scooter of the video:

Dualtron THUNDER

Max speed 85 km / h
Autonomy max 100 km
Charging time (2A charger) 18h
Charging time (2 X 2A charger) 9h
Charge time (Ultra charge) 7h
60V 35Ah Battery - LG
Weight 43 Kg
Max load 120 Kg
System PFlex © - adjustable
Disk Braking - Hydraulic Assistance
5600 W Dual Engine
Wheel Diameter 11 "Tubless
2 warranty


5600W on 2 engines, 7.5 cv is 2 times more than my original 103 era ... the couple and more! : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

So we are far, far away, 250W ...

His price? Not far from 4000 € ...
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Re: The car of the future




by Christophe » 06/02/19, 10:01

Here is his record in French, rather well translated (it is Korean of origin) but strictly nothing is indicated concerning its road homologation... Generally there are always "warnings" even in "Chinese" notices (such as "attention not to use sivouplé on the road" ...)

I think the importer is taking a big criminal risk there ... : Shock: but hey it will be rich well before having trouble! Given the number of internet shops that offer it ... : Cheesy:

DUALTRON-THUNDER-FRANCE.pdf
(2.78 million) Downloaded times 275
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Re: The car of the future




by sen-no-sen » 06/02/19, 11:46

Christophe wrote:
Yes that's what I've been trying to say for a few messages: a 250W motor, even unbridled in the sense of "pedal assistance" will remain a 250W motor ... therefore rather a very low power on the road ... and even if we unbridle it electrically, it will be difficult to exceed 500W without smoking ...


Yes the 250W remains what it is but by unbridling electronically it allows an athlete to go faster while doing so much effort, it allows to move his zone of maximum anaerobic speed of several km / h.
It is for this reason that the UCI (International Cycling Union) uses controls on technological doping, because some VAE does not predict anything externally and can quite end up in a platoon neither seen nor known ...
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Re: The car of the future




by Christophe » 06/02/19, 14:15

We agree but 250W do not maintain (or even arrive at) a speed of 45km / h for the lambda cyclist (ie not trained, ie 99% of motorists .. .) ...
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Re: The car of the future




by dede2002 » 27/02/19, 19:35

I like this new "Isetta" :)

https://www.challenges.fr/automobile/no ... cro_563960

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microlino

ps. wikipedia is wrong. Isetta was powered by a single cylinder, not a twin.
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Re: The car of the future




by Christophe » 28/02/19, 09:48

We talked about it here new-transport / car-the-future-of-t6803-3010.html few months ago...

Personally I'm not a fan of the "Microlino" concept at all and I think many drivers will think like me:
- the entrance to the car is too original (opening hood)
- little room (comfort ??)
- no or very little protection before occupants in case of accident (I even wonder how she was able to pass the homologation)
- very average aerodynamics

At the time of the original there was no SUV in town at almost all crossings, in 2019 yes ...

I would like to see the Microlino crash test results ...

I much prefer (in all respects) the Lumeneo Smera presented here: new-transport / car-the-future-of-t6803-2990.html # p333139 (project unfortunately entered)
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