Hybrid hydraulic cars

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
Olivier22
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by Olivier22 » 07/12/08, 16:39

Hello
For hydraulic pistons with axial pistons you misunderstood me, we agree! The stroke variation is done around the half-way point, which is why it cannot be used effectively in tires, because of the dead volumes which are significant when the plate is slightly inclined.

(Although ... we can imagine a regulation system which translates the plate while tilting it, so as to keep a constant TDC, but that would complicate a little, especially since an axial piston engine is by nature quite compact .)


The advantage of injecting air only on 1/4 of the stroke?
The remaining 3/4 are not useless, the pressure continues to push the piston!
Take a supply pressure of 3 relative bars; valve open on 1/4 of the stroke, this means that during the entire first quarter the pressure in the cylinder is 3 bars; during the remaining 3/4 it drops to 0. The 0 is reached at BDC, not before, so during the 3/4 there is always pressure pushing the piston. And when the exhaust opens, there is no unused residual pressure -> optimum efficiency, all the air pressure energy is used.
With an admission on the whole race, you have 3 bars in the cylinder until PMB, and during the exhaust these 3 bars leave in nature ...
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micdhi
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by micdhi » 07/12/08, 17:56

Olivier22 wrote:Hello
For hydraulic pistons with axial pistons you misunderstood me, we agree!

The advantage of injecting air only on 1/4 of the stroke?
The remaining 3/4 are not useless, the pressure continues to push the piston!
Take a supply pressure of 3 bars relative; valve open on 1/4 of the stroke, this means that during the entire first quarter the pressure in the cylinder is 3 bars; during the remaining 3/4 it drops to 0.

Good evening
sorry if i didn't understand you,
for constant TDC there is a solution at least I believe, I have been working on it for months .....
for the rest it seems to me that a volume that relaxes necessarily drops in pressure, PXV = constant does it work in both directions ???
everything depends on the volume injected compared to the volume that "gives"
the cylinder, but I'm sure it's like I said above, checked.
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chatelot16
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by chatelot16 » 07/12/08, 18:45

with the tilting swash plate of hydraulic motors is often fixed and it is the cylinder and piston that rotate: we orient the plate around a centered articulation to reduce the control effort: we could put the articulation completely eccentric to make a constant pmh, but it is useless for hydraulics

for compressed air for the first stage at 10 bar and even the following it will rather look like an internal combustion engine with piston and rod as light as possible: a swash plate would be too heavy

for the last stage at 200bar the ca looks more like hydraulics with rods bigger than the piston

I like the solution with several piston of different diameter
in tandem on the same connecting rod:
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micdhi
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by micdhi » 07/12/08, 20:14

chatelot16 wrote:with the tilting swash plate of hydraulic motors is often fixed and it is the cylinder and piston which rotate:

Good evening
it is a function of demand and use, there may be fixed plates, others variable only in one direction, others in both directions, with the pistons / liners which "turn", but it also has the pumps which have the rotating fixed pistons / liners, but they have valves. and in the end, the pumps and motors said to have broken axes as shown in this link, as Remundo has already given.

http://www.cyber.uhp-nancy.fr/demos/HYD ... 2_3_3.html
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BMW Hybrid Hydraulics




by Pjs » 05/01/09, 16:58

I discovered the following web page: http://www.artemisip.com . It would seem that they developed a hybrid hydraulic vehicle with a structure in series and not in parallel. They use hydraulic pumps and motors whose performance is apparently improved. They announce a reduction in consumption of a BMW 5 series by 50% on the urban cycle, not bad anyway.

There is also a video on youtube http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CJw5AvvxBqg
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 05/01/09, 19:15

I think that hydraulic hybridization is a very good avenue of research !!

If it is retro active (that is to say, it can be mounted as a second assembly, wheel motor style) it is even more promising.

To see the "econological profitability" of such a system because if it takes 1 km to make profitable both on economy and energy, the system has no future on the car market.

I remember an excercie in hydraulics lessons: the modification in the 90s of out-of-life Polish buses at end of life with a hydraulic compressor-motor system.

I believe they had gained 30% of torque and had found (see better) their original performance. This was done in an emergency because the city had no money to replace the buses. It was therefore an emergency solution ... It is often in an emergency that we do the most economical things ...

I never knew if it was true as an exercise. I think so.
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Olivier22
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by Olivier22 » 06/01/09, 00:38

Hello
I do not know if it will be really feasible in retrofit.
I was thinking of a parallel system: hydraulic assistance in parallel with the mechanical transmission. (after, the operating law remains to be defined: hydraulic at start-up and / or below such speed, depending on the tank pressure ...)
The pressure is exclusively generated during braking, and not by the engine (so it's more of a parallel energy recovery than a real hybrid).

Anyway, with this idea, I looked for components that can be mounted on a car: hydraulic motors to be fixed on the gearbox housing to drive the differential output shafts etc.

Well, I haven't found much on the net! ... All the technologies imaginable for powers of the order of 100 to 1000 kW ... But below 20 kW, nada (in engine variable displacement with zero displacement possible).
Adapt an engine too big to under-exploit it? Attractive: it could then completely absorb the power of an emergency brake, which a small pump motor could not necessarily absorb.
I found an 80 kW motor (I believe) under 420 bars, for a weight of 30 kg. If we put one per wheel, it makes an additional 120kg (and this, not counting the regulators and the pressure tank), it's not huge but it's enough to doubt the interest of the system ...
And I did not find the dimensions, but in my opinion it is not easy to put 2x30kg of scrap on the box!

As for putting a single engine on the primary transmission, that would make the wheels dependent on each other during braking, not good ...

In short, this is what you need: variable displacement motors from -max to + max (therefore reversible), small, light, and powerful! :?
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micdhi
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by micdhi » 06/01/09, 20:55

Olivier22 wrote:Hello
I do not know if it will be really feasible in retrofit.
I was thinking of a parallel system: hydraulic assistance in parallel with the mechanical transmission. (after, the operating law remains to be defined: hydraulic at start-up and / or below such speed, depending on the tank pressure ...)
The pressure is exclusively generated during braking, and not by the engine (so it's more of a parallel energy recovery than a real hybrid).

Anyway, with this idea, I looked for components that can be mounted on a car: hydraulic motors to be fixed on the gearbox housing to drive the differential output shafts etc.

Well, I haven't found much on the net! ... All the technologies imaginable for powers of the order of 100 to 1000 kW ... But below 20 kW, nada (in engine variable displacement with zero displacement possible).
Adapt an engine too big to under-exploit it? Attractive: it could then completely absorb the power of an emergency brake, which a small pump motor could not necessarily absorb.
I found an 80 kW motor (I believe) under 420 bars, for a weight of 30 kg. If we put one per wheel, it makes an additional 120kg (and this, not counting the regulators and the pressure tank), it's not huge but it's enough to doubt the interest of the system ...
And I did not find the dimensions, but in my opinion it is not easy to put 2x30kg of scrap on the box!

As for putting a single engine on the primary transmission, that would make the wheels dependent on each other during braking, not good ...

In short, this is what you need: variable displacement motors from -max to + max (therefore reversible), small, light, and powerful! :?


Good evening
olivier, somewhere you hit a weak point in hydraulics
because micro-hydraulics is rare, and almost non-existent, the little that remains is overpriced. and if there are pumps / motors of small displacement 6cc at an affordable price, they have a maximum pressure of 250 bars, it is little ..... compared to the 450 bars of latest generation engines.
I also have for lack of component think of a parallel system, with a thermal engine of 30 kw maxi, if possible 2 stroke diesel, (or better semi 2 stroke, admission lights and exhaust valves, low engine in oil like a 4 time), of 900cc max. one CVT type box, (of the metal belt type van doorne patent, in the public domain since 2007)
ratio of 6 to 1.
AND A 28 cc hydraulic motor / pump, with pistons, broken axis, conical pistons, from the bosch group, rexroth, type A6VM 28 recess with variable displacement from 0 to 28 cc
maximum speed DE 5500 to 10400, depending on displacement, maximum torque 179Nm mass 16 KG flow accepted 156 L / min in motor. power
more than 100kw >>>> in flow and pressure at maximum.
ideal for braking / recharging batteries. this engine would be used either alone, thermal off, slow motion, or weak, and interspersed with stopping, and restarting the vehicle. at the input of the gearbox, opposite the thermal, in this case the thermal uncoupled.
either in very low displacement pump, low power consumption for recharging the battery .......

it should be noted that for the ingocar vehicle the engines are modified according to existing components. while waiting better in the field of hydraulics ???
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"life has more imagination than our dreams carry" christophe COLOMB
enzo20134
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Registration: 01/02/09, 08:58

And if we tried the experiment




by enzo20134 » 01/02/09, 09:06

Hello everybody

While doing my research on the internet on hydraulic cars, I came across this nice forum which I hastened to subscribe to.

I have access by my family (dealers and repairers) to hydraulic equipment of various brands (the best known) at unbeatable prices. I would like to motorize a vehicle of around 700kg on the INGOCAR model.
I understand that among you there were connoisseurs of hydraulics.
My proposal is simple: what if we tried the experiment!
I am open to your suggestions for diagrams, materials to be used etc ..., I will then see according to what I can get from my family to make the vehicle.

Thank you for your collaboration and long live the oil car!
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enzo20134
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Registration: 01/02/09, 08:58




by enzo20134 » 01/02/09, 10:12

Hello

I have a little trouble understanding how the Ingo free piston engine works is someone would be kind enough to explain to me, below the link to the patent!

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6293231.pdf

Thank you

Enzo
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