Summary: Driving without oil, vehicles of tomorrow

[I Citro]

Sorry for the extra messages ...

The unwanted effects of a windobe update that just happened to me unexpectedly in Internet Explorer 7 ...

Message validation seems to be stuck ...

[I Citro]

I quietly reread his analysis.
It is very interesting and rather fair.

For Pollux, I have a velomobile boosted to 500w and I need 1kwh / 100km (either 0.1 euros EDF price per 100km or 0.1l of oil per 100km in energy).
I do more than 30km / h on average in mixed and more than 40km / h on average outside built-up areas. On my 12.5km journey, I lose at
barely 5 minutes each way from my car.

IF we take the data provided each year on the annual cost of a car, all inclusive (depreciation, insurance, etc.):
4000 euros per year for a city car, 7000 for a family car
You have to realize that a family with a car of each category and 2 salaries of 1500 net, works 30% of the time to pay for the car (36000 of income for 11 in cars), or 000h per week over 11h, or day and a half out of 35.
CA speaks to you 1 1/2 days of rest per week?

You like me, I agree with you in your analysis, although I cut the hair in 4 (lengthwise).

I do not have the same figures as you (house of 30 years) is 150kWh / m² / year.

And I also plan to switch to the boosted electric bike to do the 40km daily commute (2x20km).
However, it will be much longer than my current 30-minute journey (ring road).

[david adv]

you edited 3 messages for the price of one, a little cleaning is required.

20 km is the ideal velomobile journey. If not too much stop and lights, it is 40 minutes with assistance (or 40 minutes without assistance after 2 months of regular journey see the blog of guilhem which tries the adventure since April. http://guilhem.valentin.free.fr/aaw/ind ... endulaires )

It is also 8000km less per year by car (200 days of work), a regular exercise but not bestial thanks to the engine.

8000km by car, it is with a ladle 800 euros of petrol, 800 of maintenance and insurance, 800 of depreciation.
This means that bicycles and velomobiles are the fastest ecological equipment to amortize and if France did not have 3 car manufacturers and need the oil tax as income for the state budget, there would be 50% tax credit for their acquisition.

[I Citro]

Thank you david on this fabulous link from the pages of valentine guilhem.
I was finally able to discover, IN FRENCH, the technological content of this summary-looking device, which in reality is very elaborate.

I, who discovered the streamlined recumbent bike 25 years ago through a futuristic article on vpm (muscle powered vehicles) painting the picture of a year 2000 or roads would be dedicated to these vehicles ...


I travel 8000km / year to go to work, that is to say 800 € of fuel, 300 € of insurance for my 12hp volvo with LPG and a maintenance budget comparable over 4 years to your estimate (a large useless repair, 4 years ago) . I try to do all the maintenance myself which drastically reduces costs ...
Ah, I try to make my cars last (520km accumulated on the 000 cars of the family).

By the way, what is your velomobile? and your 500W kit?

[david adv]

a go-one with a 500w cyclone kit, I talk about it on the forum cyclurban.
For example, yesterday, I did 23km in 35 min. (20 in the countryside at 46km / h) and 3 in the city.

[Rabelaisian]

A recent discussion on velomobiles: http://groups.google.com.br/group/fr.mi ... 630?hl=fr#

[minguinhirigue]

Nice discussion about velomobiles ... I also think they have a key place to play in the future, much more important than hybrid cars. But given the evolution of mentalities (slow, very slow ...), I think that the velomobile is the day after tomorrow when the hybrid can be tomorrow.

For carpooling, it would be great too, but it takes so slowly.

Regarding the huge consumption data do not forget that having cheap electricity, they have shitty insulations

Being close to the largest consumers in the world, in sparse regions, they have gigantic living areas, and equally large bathtubs that they often use full (yes they take more baths than the French ) ...

Finally, having a very cold climate, they have huge outward losses.

So even if the figures they give for consumption are not necessarily those of average housing in Quebec, they should not necessarily be far from it.

In terms of vehicle consumption, the 20 kWh / 100 km on a small car is about what the mini electric Qued consumes in town: 4 hours of battery life on a 21 kWh battery, with 640 horsepower the wheels.

http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=rqJfRdzL6I0

For engine progress, look at the park a few years ago, the 9 liters per cent were still common, today, with a good hybrid, a good engine, a good hull, we go under the 2 liters. .

[Philippe Schutt]

ok, but the hybrid is already done, there. We are talking about dividing the consumption of the heat engine by 6. The most correct argument is that these engines would be small and would work at maximum torque and under heavy load. The quasi-turbine does not come out of the boxes, its performance is not terrible, if I understood correctly because the couple is badly oriented.

Then, do not dream. if the engine does more than 30% of the job, manufacturers will not break their heads to improve performance.

In my opinion, a division by 2 will already be very correct.

Finally take into account the cost of replacing the batteries.

[minguinhirigue]

Very fair for the fact that the manufacturers will not tread much, it is already the case ?!

Indeed, Dassault has today the patent for the wheel motor, bought from hydro-quebec, and despite the great performance shown by the cars that are equipped with it, there is still no damn going out a French hybrid with this device! ?

The systems must be left in the boxes to really save energy, it could harm EDF and Total's friends!

If Dassault to buy the wheel-motor, it is Volvo which announces itself as the first car manufacturer seriously studying the question: http://www.ledevoir.com/2008/01/15/171841.html

They are on the ReCharge proto at 12 kWh / 100km in the city.

For batteries, their revision is more restrictive than that of conventional vehicles, but the frightening progress of super-capacitors such as those of EEstor (2 MJ / kg hoped for in commercial version ... 2 times the capacity of the best current batteries without their disadvantages) suggest other solutions.

[I Citro]

Nice discussion about velomobiles ... I also think they have a key place to play in the future, much more important than hybrid cars. But given the evolution of mentalities (slow, very slow ...), I think that the velomobile is the day after tomorrow when the hybrid can be tomorrow.

Well I do not share this opinion for several reasons ...
As much as we are, we are changing mentalities ...: Arrow:
Current hybrid vehicles are inefficient 4.5 to 6 liters per 100km for current shabby and overpriced vehicles that can be compared to a Kangoo ER manufactured a few years ago by Renault and making it possible to descend below 3 liters per 100km or at artisanal conversions of classic vehicles having similar consumption.

From the strict point of view of energy efficiency and environmental impact, the velomobile is much more interesting, cheaper, although expensive to buy and above all it is available on the market and it is up to us to promote its development.