Summary: Driving without oil, vehicles of tomorrow

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
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by delnoram » 13/07/07, 21:45

Christophe wrote:
stef5555 wrote:: evil: before driving electric let's start by removing the big 4x4, the big marco and BM


1) Yes but no because overall energy consumption / CO2 emissions follow a gauss curve: it is the vast majority of medium-sized vehicles that have a greater impact. It is on the vehicles of "Mr. Everyone" that there is the most to gain ...


It's true 1000x1 = 1000 and 10x10 = 100, but we should not neglect the "copy effect" or "domino effect", like if he has the right to have a big polluting car why deprive me and this, both at the individual level and at the rich country poor country level.
The bad example has a propensity to spread much faster than the good one, so all well thought out to win on the car of "Mr. everyone" is not it good to already make the bad example financially much less attractive?
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by Christophe » 13/07/07, 22:23

We live in a crazy world ...

On the one hand, the rich who buy cars costing the price (a few years ago) of an apartment every 3 years and on the other hand, the "others" who run their lives (or almost) to reimburse their accommodation ... for those who are "lucky" to have obtained the credit.
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by pollux » 15/07/07, 00:47

funny, in all this subject, nobody cites the velomobiles as vehicle of the future ... it is however the least energy-consuming.

a velomobile with "legal" assistance therefore of 250W makes 0,4 kWh / 100km and you can easily do 80km in a day 'and with a standard battery recharge.
it's good for your health, really ecological, it sneaks into town, it's quiet, and you can easily take 35kg of luggage ... of course, it's more made for city dwellers ... but it must in my opinion be one of the vehicles to be developed. the technology is there, and the more efficient the batteries, the more interesting this mode of travel will be.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A9lomobile
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by Woodcutter » 15/07/07, 21:00

Yes, this article is rather "car" oriented, but it is obvious that VAEs must be part of the French "mobile" landscape wherever possible.
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by Woodcutter » 19/07/07, 14:34

On the night of Saturday to Sunday, the American pop singer Madonna closed the concerts organized at London's Wembley stadium as part of the super-event for the environment Live Earth. The British newspaper "News of the World" highlights that Madonna was perhaps at that time the interim prophet of the environmental message to the citizens of the world, but she actually looks more like an environmental disaster on her own.

The singer indeed has a big ecological footprint! His luxurious lifestyle and diverse star activities generate incredible CO2 emissions. It has 9 residences worldwide (including 6 in London), 6 cars (including 2 Range Rover) and it travels by private jet (it is also necessary to count the journeys of all its staff as part of its Confessions Tour). According to the newspaper's detailed calculations, its CO2 emissions reach the equivalent of 54 average Americans, 102 British or 14 Malaysians. The estimate of the Madonna's footprint over a year then amounts to more than 548 kg of CO1. For comparison, the average Englishman emits 018 kg!

John Buckley, director of the eco-auditing company Carbon Footprint, said: "It's good that the pop stars preach the good news to us, but it would be better if they looked at their own lifestyle first. reduce their carbon emissions ".
Source

Not sure it's really comparable to Hulot ...
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by Christophe » 19/07/07, 15:11

Keep the comparison funny:

The equivalent of 54 average Americans, 102 British or 14 Malaysians.


1) Do 54 Americans or 102 British create as much wealth (in the GDP sense) as Madonna? I do not have the sales figures of madonna (well not sorry it interests me no more than that showbiz) so I would refrain from the calculation ...

2) On the other hand, we can do an interesting little calculation: let's relate this to the GDP generated by these people and I bet that the cleanest are the Malaysians ...

According to the CIA Factbook, GDP per person (2004-2005):

USA: $41,800
UK: $ 30,300
Malaysia: $ 12,100

-> CO2 released / person:

USA: 1 / 018 = 372 kg
UK: 1 / 018 = 372 kg
Malaysia: 1 018/372 = 14545 kg

-> $ of GDP created / kg of CO2

USA: 41,800 / 18859 = $ 2,2 / kg
UK: 30,300 / 9984 = $ 3,0 / kg

Malaysia: 12,100 / 70 = $ 172,9 / kg

Overwhelming right? How dare we still treat PIDs of big polluters ...
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by david adv » 13/11/07, 00:06

Hello,
it's an interesting approach ... with a sensitive bias. I am surprised at the few reactions that this follows:

I will come back later but already 2/3 remarks

-80% progress on engine consumption thanks to technical progress: spraying, better lubrication, etc ... it is very optimistic if not utopian.
If he was talking about weight reduction and speed, I would believe it more.

-His analysis on heat pumps: we all understood, at least here, that it was only a means of storing and transporting energy. And so the pollution is done elsewhere, with a low yield which he emphasizes and which makes him discard this solution.
But it is exactly the same for electricity, the yields are low for thermal power plants, as for nuclear power plants. Unless you produce this electricity from the sun, the sea or the wind, there is bound to be some pollution.

- finally its calculation of 20kwH / 100km average seems weak to me: I think that it is the mechanical watt, those which arrive at the wheel of the car therefore the it is rather 25kwh to store in the batteries, and 30kwh to leave the meter edf to charge the batteries (see http://sfp.in2p3.fr/Debat/debat_energie ... -elect.htm)

His figures are not completely wrong but by grading 20% ​​here, 20% there, we transform them and we make them say what we want.

Believing in significant technical progress is the talk we get out at every auto show. it's DANGEROUS because it pushes us to stand still, to wait for the solution from the manufacturers, without changing our way of life. Progress exists but it is slow ... and even if it lowers consumption by 2% per year per vehicle, it does not compensate, but not at all, the increase in users!
While sharing your car tomorrow with your colleague means immediate savings of 50% ... and taking your bike or a ride is 95 to 100%!
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by I Citro » 13/11/07, 19:42

david adv wrote:Hello,
it's an interesting approach ... with a sensitive bias. I am surprised at the few reactions that this follows:

I will come back later but already 2/3 remarks

-80% progress on engine consumption thanks to technical progress: spraying, better lubrication, etc ... it is very optimistic if not utopian.
If he was talking about weight reduction and speed, I would believe it more.
...
- finally its calculation of 20kwH / 100km average seems weak to me: I think that it is the mechanical watt, those which arrive at the wheel of the car therefore the it is rather 25kwh to store in the batteries, and 30kwh to leave the meter edf to charge the batteries (see http://sfp.in2p3.fr/Debat/debat_energie ... -elect.htm)

His figures are not completely wrong but by grading 20% ​​here, 20% there, we transform them and we make them say what we want.
...

While sharing your car tomorrow with your colleague means immediate savings of 50% ... and taking your bike or a ride is 95 to 100%!


I generally agree with your analysis except for carpooling ... :?
when you say 50% immediate savings, it's rarely true ... : Cry:
The carpooler does not always live near you, which often forces a "detour" to pick him up and the consumption also increases because of this additional charge. :x
: Lol:
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by david adv » 18/11/07, 20:20

when you say 50% immediate savings, it's rarely true ...
The carpooler does not always live near you, which often forces a "detour" to pick him up and the consumption also increases because of this additional charge.

Ca Citro, it's called cutting hair in 4!
Ok, let's be precise: 50% of the shortest journey or the joint journey ... but carpooling is also 3 or 4 or more.
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by david adv » 18/11/07, 23:06

I quietly reread his analysis.
It is very interesting and rather fair.

The only really confusing thing is the home drinks he took. Fortunately, not everyone consumes as much:
5000 kwh for hot water and 25000 for heating is enormous.

I went back into my edf gdf invoices and I find this:

-in an apartment of 65 m2 very well insulated and very well oriented in Nantes, for 3 people: average over 2 years:
2100kwh / year of gas for heating and water
1900kwh / year of elec without air conditioning and without tumble dryer but elec and computer / tv plate in intensive use

in a recent house of 110m² but under standard construction in valves.
for 4 people: average over 2 years:
7700kwh / year of gas for heating and water
3100kwh / year of elec without air conditioning and without tumble dryer but elec and computer / tv plate in intensive use.
or a total of 10 kwh / year or 800 kwh / m² / year all inclusive.
If I take his data for electric cars with 2 cars, a small one, a large one, it's 4kwh / year more. (+ 000% in oil)
It is true that it would go well.

For Pollux, I have a velomobile boosted to 500w and I need 1kwh / 100km (either 0.1 euros EDF price per 100km or 0.1l of oil per 100km in energy).
I do more than 30km / h on average in mixed and more than 40km / h on average outside built-up areas. On my 12.5km journey, I lose at
barely 5 minutes each way from my car.

IF we take the data provided each year on the annual cost of a car, all inclusive (depreciation, insurance, etc.):
4000 euros per year for a city car, 7000 for a family car
You have to realize that a family with a car of each category and 2 salaries of 1500 net, works 30% of the time to pay for the car (36000 of income for 11 in cars), or 000h per week over 11h, or day and a half out of 35.
CA speaks to you 1 1/2 days of rest per week?
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