Pierre Langlois: Driving without oil, Book excerpts

[Christophe]

Well, these terminals, recharged by solar (or wind power), however, do need buffer batteries, don't they? It is necessary that kk1 "pay" them ... so who?

In all cases their lifespan is limited and they will have to be changed sooner or later: here the environment pays ...

[Elec]

Well, these terminals, recharged by solar (or wind power), however, do need buffer batteries, don't they? It is necessary that kk1 "pay" them ... so who?

In all cases their lifespan is limited and they will have to be changed sooner or later: here the environment pays ...

The investment in BP infrastructure, for an oil importing country, corresponds to 2 months of oil import.

Shaï Agassi to Obama: "a US-wide Betterplace plan will cost 100 billion dollars, the equivalent of 2 months of US oil imports"

In all cases their lifespan is limited and they will have to be changed sooner or later: here the environment pays ...

- The new batteries (Lithium nanophosphate etc.) have remarkable performance and are non-toxic.
- Lithium is abundant et 98% recyclable

If we take into account the environmental (water, pesticides, fertilizers, biodiversity etc.) and health balance of electro-motricity to that of agrocarb-motricity, electro-motricity prevails very very largely.

[dirk pitt]

40% * (central) x 95% (transmission) x 90% (VE) = 34%

elec, we are on the same side, well I think but I just want to say that we must not be too generous on the figures because it does not serve the cause.

on the generation part of the electricity, we are roughly in agreement.
on the transport to the outlet, you are a little generous, many serious articles speak of 6 to 9% of losses on the network.

from taking to the wheel, I think you are really too generous because you have to distinguish:
-the charger efficiency (hardly better than 85%)
-the return efficiency of the battery (1 watt supplied during charging restores how much to discharge: 95 to 98%)
-the efficiency of the power chain (MOSFET controller + motor = 90 to 95%
-mechanical performance variable but 95% honest)

Jean-Paul 2 and I remember 1

that makes us about 26% of the input from the power plant to the wheel.

I follow you 100% on your other arguments like V2G & G2V or urban pollution, etc.

[Elec]

on the generation part of the electricity, we are roughly in agreement. on the transport to the outlet, you are a little generous, many serious articles speak of 6 to 9% of losses on the network.

- I took 5%. This is the case with modern networks.
The orders of magnitude, at the final balance sheet level, do not change if we take 10%.

- Pierre Langlois is based on the performance of a vehicle fitted with a wheel motor.

When we look to the future, when we want to build a green economy, it is relevant to take the best technologies available today: we are not going to build a new economy with the technologies of yesterday or the day before yesterday.

elec, we're on the same side, well I think
I follow you 100% on your other arguments like V2G & G2V or urban pollution, etc.

Dirk, I base my approach only on scientific data and I do not obey any ideology. Before I discovered the BP concept and the performance of new batteries, I thought, for example, that microalgae and plants from arid zones (like Pongamia or Jatropha) were an interesting route for the transport station. In light of these new scientific and economic data, I did not hesitate to radically change my position on this subject, which surprised Christophe moreover.

The Stanford multi-criteria study that I have cited several times here is a typical example of a study that is based only on scientific data. It is therefore enormously valuable, because it is detached from all ideologies (decreasing ideology, pro-nuclear ideology, anti-nuclear ideology etc.).

Do not hesitate to question your approaches when they are overtaken by new data.

[Christophe]

Dirk, do the loss figures of your serious articles take into account the transformation losses?

How many average transformations are there in France? Hard to say...

Let us take 4 transformations and 95% of transformer efficiency: 0.95 ^ 4 is much more than 9% ... and without the "line" losses strictly speaking ...

[Elec]

ok, let's take 10%.

40% x 90% x 90% = 32% (instead of 34%)

60% x 90% x 90 = 48,6% (instead of 51%)


32> 18

48,6> 18

[Christophe]

The investment in BP infrastructure, for an oil importing country, corresponds to 2 months of oil import.

Shaï Agassi to Obama: "a US-wide Betterplace plan will cost 100 billion dollars, the equivalent of 2 months of US oil imports"

Good remark.

In all cases their lifespan is limited and they will have to be changed sooner or later: here the environment pays ...

- The new batteries (Lithium nanophosphate etc.) have remarkable performance .... [/ quote]

Li-P? I do not know, how many charge cycles possible? How much does it cost per kWh stored?

[Elec]

Li-P? I do not know, how many charge cycles possible? How much does it cost per kWh stored?

www.a123systems.com

See in particular the graphs about charge cycles here:
http://www.a123systems.com/technology

GRAPH 1 - GRAPH 2

20kWh, $ 10000
With BP, you don't buy the battery.
You buy miles.

The company A123Systems will mass produce Lithium ion batteries for electric cars (production capacity between 0,5 and 5 million units per year!)

A123Systems Lithium Nanophosphate Battery - A 100% electric motorcycle that accelerates from 0 to 100km / h in ONE second!

[Christophe]

Roh the lazy!

Good then:

A123's Nanophosphate ™ technology delivers exceptional calendar and cycle life. At low rates our ANR26650M1 cells can deliver thousands of cycles at 100% Depth-of-Discharge (DOD), a feat unmatched by most commercial lithium ion cells. Even when cycled at 10C discharge rates, our cells deliver in excess of 1,000 full depth-of-discharge cycles.

-> At least 1000 "deep" discharge cycles possible

Life

* 10+ year projected calendar life
* Excellent life cycle

-> Expected lifespan: 10 years

[Elec]

At least 1000 "deep" discharge cycles possible

GRAPH 1

After 3000 cycles, another 90% of capacity ...

3000 x 160 km = 480 km

Knowing that the battery cost BP 10 dollars, BP invoices on the 000 / 10 package = 000 eurocents per km

+ around 0,5 eurocent per km for electricity
+ around 0,5 eurocents per km for infrastructure
Total = 3,6 eurocents per kilometer purchased

Once the investment in the infrastructure has paid off, it is at all beneficial for BP.