Number of cycles of a battery

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Kapitch
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Number of cycles of a battery




by Kapitch » 28/09/09, 14:50

Hello,
I would like to know if someone can help me with the question I ask myself: why a battery (of lithium-ion type for example) has a limited number of cycles? Are they recyclable and if so how?
Thank you for your help
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 28/09/09, 15:55

Hello Kapitch,

Li-on batteries are not rechargeable while Li-on batteries do.

Please note, for rechargeable batteries, use only a suitable charger, otherwise risk of fire or explosion (1 / 10th of a volt difference and leakage ...). So do not load unattended and preferably in the bathroom (or in a terracotta flower pot) in short any place where there is no great risk of fire ... It is rare but a battery can also be defective. If a Li-ion battery heats up abnormally during charging, it is recommended to interrupt immediately.

The number of charge / discharge cycles? It depends. On my laptop there are some that lasted 1 year others 4 years and more. On my camera, a little over 4 years.

But like any accumulator, you have to charge and discharge them often (I presume) they are planned like that. In case of prolonged non-use, they must be fully charged.
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by Christophe » 28/09/09, 15:56

Because everything wears out ... : Cheesy:

Be careful about the number of cycles: this is given at 70 or 80% of the initial capacity!

In other words, a battery given as "dead" by the manufacturer's data still contains about 4/5 th of capacity!

The number of "full" charge-discharge cycles is currently around 500-600 cycles. If you do 1/2 cycles, you have double.

For recyclability, you should find information on the website of ADEME or drire (there are millions of li-ion batteries of GSM to be treated currently ...)!
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by I Citro » 28/09/09, 16:10

:D Welcome to the Forum.

All batteries have a limited number of cycles.
This is because the chemistry of the electrodes is changed during charging and discharging, causing "chemical wear".
However, this wear can be limited by using the batteries optimally.
For example, a number of 1000 cyles with 100% discharge could give 2500 cycles at 50% (and not 2000 cycles)
Lead batteries, for example, do not support deep discharges which destroy them irreparably, certain lithium technologies, too.
Overloads must also be managed, as well as temperatures ...
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by the middle » 28/09/09, 18:49

: Arrow: By the way, Citro,
I’ve been wondering how electric car batteries behave in winter : Shock:
Autonomy must really drop right?
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by Obamot » 28/09/09, 21:43

Hello Citro,

citro wrote:For example, a number of 1000 cycles with 100% discharge could give 2500 cycles at 50% (and not 2000 cycles) [...] certain lithium technologies, too.
Overloads must also be managed, as well as temperatures ...

... can you develop? Thank you.

Because we hear everything and its opposite:
- some say that, having no memory effect, NiMH have no no need to be completely discharged (?) (although it should be understood completely, devices no longer work if the battery has 1 Volt ... and 1 volt is not completely discharged ...).
- Even though the advertisement around certain chargers (Ansamann) claims that they supposedly completely "discharge" your batteries, because it is more-better-good to do so .... Verification done, the discharge n is not complete ... It drops to ~ 1.1 Volt mini ..
- NiMhs do not need to be fully discharged ... I don't know if this is true, but by fully discharging them, I still managed to extend their lifespan quite considerably.
- Others still recommend a relatively deep discharge by discharging the battery with a bulb connected to the terminals, this to considerably increase the lifespan .... they say .. Who says true, who says false? : Mrgreen:
- finally some claim to have given a second youth to their batteries by putting them in the freezer overnight : Shock:

This is why I do not understand well this calculation around partial and or complete discharge?

Ditto with Li-ion batteries. My first (laptop) I did not expect it to be completely discharged, it only lasted one year. The second carefully brought to the limit each time lasted me over four years!

So it's weird ...

Is there a statistic at qqp (number of cycles of limited discharge VS number of cycles with discharge pushed to the acceptable limit)?

Some feedback?
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by I Citro » 28/09/09, 23:25

Obamot wrote:
citro wrote:For example, a number of 1000 cycles with 100% discharge could give 2500 cycles at 50% (and not 2000 cycles) [...] certain lithium technologies, too.
Overloads must also be managed, as well as temperatures ...
... can you develop? Thank you.
We're not in bed ...
We must first isolate a specific technology before developing.
In the Nimh, for example, there are several technologies including the "ready2use" from Varta, the Hybrio from Uniross ... (and many other names depending on the brand). As their name suggests, they have a low self-discharge rate and retain 80% of their capacity after 6 months. I adopted them for my digital camera with great satisfaction.

In lithium technologies, it's even more the jungle, I haven't dived into it yet, waiting for a technology to emerge from the lot ...

Regarding the Nicd, the liquid electrolyte batteries of my vehicles have nothing comparable with the Nicd batteries with gelled electrolyte ...
:?

That said, there are on the net number of extension sites to understand the advantages and disadvantages of the main technologies available.
NI-CD.net is very appreciated by beginners.
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by Obamot » 28/09/09, 23:31

citro wrote:We're not in bed ...
... not yet but the hour is approaching (lol) :| : Cheesy:

So let's summarize!

How to know what type of battery you have to do in your list.

I use "no name" from Lidl or "Tronic":
=> AA 1.2v 2500 mAh
- recharge time / recharge current: 7h at 500 mA
(which I intend to use to power a digital camera which requires NiMH at 1600 mAh)

For all the types you mention, should they be completely discharged and which ones?

Otherwise what is the optimal discharge value to obtain the best resistance (duration) over time?
Last edited by Obamot the 28 / 09 / 09, 23: 40, 2 edited once.
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by I Citro » 28/09/09, 23:37

lejustemilieu wrote:: arrow: I've been wondering for a while how the batteries of electric cars behave in winter : Shock:
Autonomy must really drop right?
Indeed, the autonomy decreases when the NiCd (or lead) batteries are cold. Of course the colder it is, the more this phenomenon increases.
In Bordeaux, the climate is quite temperate, 8) It is considered that in France, the loss of autonomy is around 10% in winter.
As far as I am concerned, this is not problematic, and certain tips can further reduce the phenomenon. As the batteries heat up during the charge process (Joule effect), I program it so that the charge ends shortly before I leave for work.
: Idea:
My 106 was equipped by the previous owner with a temperature sensor with display in the passenger compartment. Although it is quite fanciful, I will try to consult it regularly.
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by I Citro » 29/09/09, 00:12

Obamot wrote:I use "no name" from Lidl or "Tronic":
=> AA 1.2v 2500 mAh
- recharge time / recharge current: 7h at 500 mA
(which I intend to use to power a digital camera which requires NiMH at 1600 mAh)
Considering the power, these are high power standards, often labeled "photo".
Normally they are charged 15H at 250mA but they are designed to support fast charges. They have a fairly high self-discharge rate.
You have to charge them just before putting them in my camera ...
I don't do it anymore and only use them in low-power applications like a wireless keyboard or mouse ...

My "ready2use" batteries are only "2100mA". In use, their autonomy is greater.
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