not so fast. sure you have to take it with tweezers and look twice but don't criticize too quickly.
I had already read another dust to dust study which said the same thing (I have to find it, I had to make a copy)
for the history of money, it is simply that they converted energy per km (whose units are not speaking for the common man) in $ / km
The Hummer greener than the Prius?
-
- Moderator
- posts: 79304
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 11037
Yes I think there is still a "bit" of protectionist in this study. I did notice it here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/vehicules- ... t7582.html
There are a few questions about hybrids that I think of, you'll be happy to answer.
For the comparison, it is necessary to zieuté the complete study (I looked and I admit that there are things which exceed me, example p277 and 278, there is the analysis of the cycle of manufacture of coffee ... !!) to try to understand the method: apparently "EVERYTHING" seems included, including, for example, the "accident-causing" statistics of the vehicle in question. In other words: how lucky you are to break your car before the end of its life. And on this point indeed: a Hummer can survive more collisions with other vehicles than a Prius before going to the scrapyard!
Gray energy has obviously also been taken into account: where are prius sold in the USA? Because the Hummers are made in the USA.
For the life of the engine, I think there is speculation: because even if the prius is more complex, toyota engines are among the best in the world in terms of reliability!
But be careful to take a closer look, this comparison seems more economical than ecological!
In terms of results they are from page 288: Energy Efficiency per Mile.
p289, Prius Total $ Energy per Mile Medium: $ 3.526 / Mile!
p290 BMW M3: $ 2.869 / Mile!
It is frankly astonishing that the BMW M3 (petrol engine of more than 300 Cv !!) is better than the Prius! It's a messy RACE car !!
p290 at the end: Ttl Lower Mid-Range SUV
Funny: the Chrysler, Dodge and other Jeep are, surprisingly, all below 1.6 $ / Mile !!!
Frankly guys should not, it shows there: it's BIG THE BIG !! It smells like protectionist intoxication at full force ... of course exhaust!
By making statistics (average, disparity ...) of the results I think that the American manufacturers, are, by chance, always much better classified than the European or Asian! *
p292: ah ah ah even the series 7, monsters of power and mass (worse than the M3) are better than the Prius !! $ 3.048 / Mile!
p292: the famous Hummer H2 "best in the world lively bush"! $ 3.139 / Mile!
Come on I stop there ... direction Trash! I've read enough bullshit for the week!
And to say that we, the non-American media, relayed this shit without thinking and really analyzing the figures and methods of this study ... We had doubts, they are confirmed! * In addition, these results are valid, moreover, only on the AMERICAN GROUND (petrol is more expensive than diesel there) !! We are really too stupid!
There are a few questions about hybrids that I think of, you'll be happy to answer.
For the comparison, it is necessary to zieuté the complete study (I looked and I admit that there are things which exceed me, example p277 and 278, there is the analysis of the cycle of manufacture of coffee ... !!) to try to understand the method: apparently "EVERYTHING" seems included, including, for example, the "accident-causing" statistics of the vehicle in question. In other words: how lucky you are to break your car before the end of its life. And on this point indeed: a Hummer can survive more collisions with other vehicles than a Prius before going to the scrapyard!
Gray energy has obviously also been taken into account: where are prius sold in the USA? Because the Hummers are made in the USA.
For the life of the engine, I think there is speculation: because even if the prius is more complex, toyota engines are among the best in the world in terms of reliability!
But be careful to take a closer look, this comparison seems more economical than ecological!
In terms of results they are from page 288: Energy Efficiency per Mile.
p289, Prius Total $ Energy per Mile Medium: $ 3.526 / Mile!
p290 BMW M3: $ 2.869 / Mile!
It is frankly astonishing that the BMW M3 (petrol engine of more than 300 Cv !!) is better than the Prius! It's a messy RACE car !!
p290 at the end: Ttl Lower Mid-Range SUV
Funny: the Chrysler, Dodge and other Jeep are, surprisingly, all below 1.6 $ / Mile !!!
Frankly guys should not, it shows there: it's BIG THE BIG !! It smells like protectionist intoxication at full force ... of course exhaust!
By making statistics (average, disparity ...) of the results I think that the American manufacturers, are, by chance, always much better classified than the European or Asian! *
p292: ah ah ah even the series 7, monsters of power and mass (worse than the M3) are better than the Prius !! $ 3.048 / Mile!
p292: the famous Hummer H2 "best in the world lively bush"! $ 3.139 / Mile!
Come on I stop there ... direction Trash! I've read enough bullshit for the week!
And to say that we, the non-American media, relayed this shit without thinking and really analyzing the figures and methods of this study ... We had doubts, they are confirmed! * In addition, these results are valid, moreover, only on the AMERICAN GROUND (petrol is more expensive than diesel there) !! We are really too stupid!
Last edited by Christophe the 12 / 05 / 09, 09: 48, 1 edited once.
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
Again, on the question of the Prius mentioned in passing, it all depends on where we set the bar !!!
The guy who goes to work alone with a Prius still rejects about 120 g of CO² ... If he takes a little puppy like Citroën C1, it's 106 g ... The scooter, I don't know, public transport less (unless he is alone on the bus!), the bike, nothing ... So there, in absolute terms, it is quickly seen.
Again, this is a "typical course" for these measures. If he goes down the Alsace plain with his Prius on the 4 lanes, he will consume and emit much more because he will not often have the opportunity to benefit from energy recovery ... therefore from the hybrid effect .
If like me, it descends from the foothills by a winding road and goes back up in the evening, it is sure that it can recover a little more energy (energy which I disciple under braking, although I try to anticipate a maximum , so I also save, since the injection (of LPG) is cut 200 or 300 m before the turn ...) and reuse it on the flat ...
So, yes, nothing to save the world, even if the gain depends a lot on the use made of the machine (and it is never said in the "pro-Prius" articles that I read).
Another way of seeing things: the guy who buys a Prius had enough to put € 25 in cash on the table. He could have bought - and probably would have - I do not know what big non-hybrid car (with roughly speaking, today emissions of 000 g / km, like Audi, Passat, Volvo ...).
If, rocked by the media (very generally pro-Prius), he thinks of saving the world, he is wrong. However, the world has "scratched" about 40 g of CO² / km. I prefer that than seeing him parading in an Audi (I have nothing against Audi, but it goes through my head). So I encourage him anyway ... assuming he was pretty much going to buy a mid-caliber car anyway.
And I buy a puppy, if I am not able to solve my transport problem better now!
The guy who goes to work alone with a Prius still rejects about 120 g of CO² ... If he takes a little puppy like Citroën C1, it's 106 g ... The scooter, I don't know, public transport less (unless he is alone on the bus!), the bike, nothing ... So there, in absolute terms, it is quickly seen.
Again, this is a "typical course" for these measures. If he goes down the Alsace plain with his Prius on the 4 lanes, he will consume and emit much more because he will not often have the opportunity to benefit from energy recovery ... therefore from the hybrid effect .
If like me, it descends from the foothills by a winding road and goes back up in the evening, it is sure that it can recover a little more energy (energy which I disciple under braking, although I try to anticipate a maximum , so I also save, since the injection (of LPG) is cut 200 or 300 m before the turn ...) and reuse it on the flat ...
So, yes, nothing to save the world, even if the gain depends a lot on the use made of the machine (and it is never said in the "pro-Prius" articles that I read).
Another way of seeing things: the guy who buys a Prius had enough to put € 25 in cash on the table. He could have bought - and probably would have - I do not know what big non-hybrid car (with roughly speaking, today emissions of 000 g / km, like Audi, Passat, Volvo ...).
If, rocked by the media (very generally pro-Prius), he thinks of saving the world, he is wrong. However, the world has "scratched" about 40 g of CO² / km. I prefer that than seeing him parading in an Audi (I have nothing against Audi, but it goes through my head). So I encourage him anyway ... assuming he was pretty much going to buy a mid-caliber car anyway.
And I buy a puppy, if I am not able to solve my transport problem better now!
0 x
-
- Moderator
- posts: 79304
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 11037
Yes but the debate is not really there Did67, how, by what statistical artifice is it possible that a BMW M3 (petrol engine of 350 hp I think) better than a Prius?
Lifetime? Mwarf, zavé seen the zouaves who roll in M3, it is not the kind to take care of their engine!
Import? Europe and Japan, both are imported!
Accident? More risk of crash in M3 than in Prius!
Fuel? It is the same!
Manufacturing? The engine of the M3 (V8 or V10?) Must be at least as expensive to manufacture as the 4L hybrid of the Prius!
Frankly there I do not see where is the BUG ...
The BUG may just be from this:
Source: http://cnwmr.com/sv001data/
Lifetime? Mwarf, zavé seen the zouaves who roll in M3, it is not the kind to take care of their engine!
Import? Europe and Japan, both are imported!
Accident? More risk of crash in M3 than in Prius!
Fuel? It is the same!
Manufacturing? The engine of the M3 (V8 or V10?) Must be at least as expensive to manufacture as the 4L hybrid of the Prius!
Frankly there I do not see where is the BUG ...
The BUG may just be from this:
Company Background
Founded in 1984, CNW Marketing / Research began as Coastal NW Publishing Company. Through the years, clients and subscribers have spread from the Great Northwest to include every state of the union (except Alabama), Australia, Europe, Asia and Canada. Clients include major automobile manufacturers, banks and lending institutions, Wall Street brokerage firms and consultants.
Source: http://cnwmr.com/sv001data/
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
-
- I posted 500 messages!
- posts: 716
- Registration: 21/12/08, 18:25
- Location: Strasbourg
- x 7
-
- Moderator
- posts: 79304
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 11037
Hey Michel, don't make me say what I didn't say!
Check out my review here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/vehicules- ... t7582.html
I am far from being a hybrid pro (downsizing the engine and the car + variable compression are better in my opinion) but to say that an M3 pollutes 20% less than a Prius is hard to hear for an econologist! !
Check out my review here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/vehicules- ... t7582.html
I am far from being a hybrid pro (downsizing the engine and the car + variable compression are better in my opinion) but to say that an M3 pollutes 20% less than a Prius is hard to hear for an econologist! !
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
-
- I posted 500 messages!
- posts: 716
- Registration: 21/12/08, 18:25
- Location: Strasbourg
- x 7
-
- Moderator
- posts: 79304
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 11037
Here I am already more in agreement with this!
There are countless examples of protectionism!
To give an example to a case that you like (aeronautics) and that you obviously have to know: the commercial failure of the concord, due in large part, to the Boeing lobbying on the French airports!
Otherwise there is also rochefort ... we are blackmailing them to authorize their beef cloned with transgenic hormones!
I would love to know what we lose and what they gain ... the ratio in their favor must be 1 to 1000!
There are countless examples of protectionism!
To give an example to a case that you like (aeronautics) and that you obviously have to know: the commercial failure of the concord, due in large part, to the Boeing lobbying on the French airports!
Otherwise there is also rochefort ... we are blackmailing them to authorize their beef cloned with transgenic hormones!
I would love to know what we lose and what they gain ... the ratio in their favor must be 1 to 1000!
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
Comparing the price to an environmental footprint is a moron. We know that the ecological footprint of a product is often inversely proportional to its cost.
In addition, we must take into account the social qualities of a product which also affects its price.
Let us not forget either the principle of psychological price which remains predominant in the cost of a car. A car does not cost the price it is worth, but the price that it is estimated to cost. It is enough to see the melting of automobile prices after the crisis to realize this phenomenon.
In addition, we must take into account the social qualities of a product which also affects its price.
Let us not forget either the principle of psychological price which remains predominant in the cost of a car. A car does not cost the price it is worth, but the price that it is estimated to cost. It is enough to see the melting of automobile prices after the crisis to realize this phenomenon.
Off topic
Based on this idea, I wonder if there is not a psychological carbon weight either.
Let me explain "I am such an important person that my little vertebrates cannot be manhandled and that what I reject as pollution is much less than what I could claim. Also, in my situation, I have to to move around in such a comfortable car, otherwise my whole existence may disappear into limbo. "
The ecological crisis and premiums show us that manufacturers can easily reduce consumption. To think that this is not a technical problem for them, but rather a marketing choice.
0 x
-
- Moderator
- posts: 79304
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 11037
1) No, it's not that stupid since all spending (materials, energy ...) can be converted into money!
Currency is simply a means of counting in this case ... like the meter to evaluate a distance!
What is missing however is to put a cost on pollution or rather non-pollution ...and there it seems to me that the study has serious shortcomings.
Example: a prius in electric mode in town = 0 emissions
a hummer in town = emissions that kill X people and animals per km (the piafs are very sensitive to benzene)
How much do these dead cost? Can we put a price on life? Insurance companies know how to cost a dead person!
I don't count the frontal surface of the hummer which kills more insects
that the prius
2) Melting prices you find? Me not ... 10 to 20% at best I don't call it a cast!
The fact that car manufacturers are greasing like pigs is nothing new: to build a new assembly line every 24 to 36 times, you have to bring in money!
ps: the quote is from where?
Currency is simply a means of counting in this case ... like the meter to evaluate a distance!
What is missing however is to put a cost on pollution or rather non-pollution ...and there it seems to me that the study has serious shortcomings.
Example: a prius in electric mode in town = 0 emissions
a hummer in town = emissions that kill X people and animals per km (the piafs are very sensitive to benzene)
How much do these dead cost? Can we put a price on life? Insurance companies know how to cost a dead person!
I don't count the frontal surface of the hummer which kills more insects
that the prius
2) Melting prices you find? Me not ... 10 to 20% at best I don't call it a cast!
The fact that car manufacturers are greasing like pigs is nothing new: to build a new assembly line every 24 to 36 times, you have to bring in money!
ps: the quote is from where?
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
Back to "New transport: innovations, engines, pollution, technologies, policies, organization ..."
Who is online ?
Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 194 guests