GPL: latest news

[professeur31]

And then I have already seen a black smoking petrol engine, it is enough just to have a washed engine, worn segmentation, too much play in the cylinders, too large offsets in the compressions, engine which eats oil forcing.
A tight engine, I don't see how it can smoke, quite simply!
A tight engine c a tight engine, it does not rotate any more, if you allude to the segments which stick in their grooves, c not tight that.
Just as you can see a white smoking diesel engine for other reasons.

A petrol engine that smokes black, this comes from a large excess of fuel or else (which amounts to the same thing) from a lack of air (air filter clogged).
Generally, black gasoline fumes are apparent for a gasoline / air ratio <1/10; which obviously shows a very poor combustion due to the excess fuel which does not burn.
Generally a worn engine does not smoke black (even if in some cases it is possible) but blue because in this case, it is the oil rises or the crankcase gases which produce this very carcinogenic smoke elsewhere.
For white (and not gray) smoke, this is always due either to condensation or to internal coolant leaks (water inlets in the room) but never to injection problems, air or wear of the parts moving.

[Woodcutter]

[...] Tell me Bucheron, it is based on what claims the site that balances unverifiable tables!

What is this gibberish? I do not understand...
The figures advanced are, in my opinion, completely verifiable since they are figures which come from the manufacturers for the emissions of pollutants, or reports of ADEME for the prices and costs compared of fuels.

What allows you to assert the impartiality of the author.

Where did I say that? Learn to read before telling bullshit ...
I have said that the author expresses a point of view, which, although personal, is supported and documented. Point.

Did you see the manufacturers' measuring devices, did you see if they were properly calibrated, were you present during the measurements?
Have you seen the capability tests of these measuring devices, the quality certificates, the standards in force, the sources of fuels, their qualities, etc ...
The list is long if we want to draw real conclusions based on ALL the variables.

I'm sorry Bucheron, but on that one, I would call you incredulous!

Hemmm ...
Think before you post, it will save you from spawning a foolishness per line of text !

Un INgullible is someone who does not believe Administrative staff...
In the present case, I believe in the figures in these tables, yes.
I do not see what interest a builder would have in giving figures that are not to his advantage.
This is also what the article implies: if the figures are not provided by many manufacturers, it may be because they are not as good as the image of the LPG might let believe.

Generally, I take into account what I read when I am given sources that seem reliable.
I do not see why I would need to have before me all the evidence that you list above, it is absolutely ridiculous!

Woodcutter, the Netherlands were the first countries to promote the GPL because they are the first Europeans to have become aware of ecology, if the ice too fondents, Holland will not love their land is already under the level seas.
There is therefore a real ecological political impulse and a COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS THAT DOES NOT EXIST IN FRANCE.
Are French fuel specialists better than those in Holland?
Must stop looking at the navel in France !!!

The most successful LPG dual-fuel kits are Dutch, it is well known, yes.
Did someone say otherwise?

For the rest, I don't see the connection ...
The melting of ice due to global warming is due to the production of CO2!
So if the Dutch had a "collective consciousness"causing them to fight against this fact to protect their country from submersion, they would not favor LPG which produces more CO2 than petrol or diesel with equivalent performance

And they would have what heads the pretty tables of figures whose sources are unverifiable, with the data that goes with ...

I think that with the manufacturers who provided these figures, it is on the contrary very easily verifiable, even if I did not try.

It's so easy in this world to discredit what is good because it doesn't make enough profit ...

Apparently, the author's opinion is that in France, oil companies make a little too much profit on this fuel ... (but on the other hand, not the state, since the taxes are low compared to others fuels).

If you advocate Bucheron impartiality then go to the end of your convictions.
There it is incoherent your speech, pronounce impartiality with information which is not certified impartial, sorry, I bug!

True impartiality does not exist and what I advocate above all is verifiable information and not sentences like:
- "I remind you that in CM2, in primary school we learn that the more the flame is blue and transparent, the more the combustion is complete.
-"Furthermore, I have never seen my LPG vehicles ... [...] "
-"As far as I'm concerned, I believe what I learned in school."
-"Hey ho, the calculations, yes, but sometimes common sense even ..."

I also know how to say that such and such a thing is good because something said that it was good because something had its numbers.

Learn to read your interlocutors!

I say that this article is interesting because documented.
This is absolutely not the case for your words which are neither constructed (you repeat the same thing several times), nor argued, nor supported by external references.

I think what you lack most in your reasoning is a minimum of scientific rigor and above all, a lot of analytical skills ...

Show me the calibration certifications, the fuel compositions, the percentages of measurement errors.
Who checked? Who does he work for? in what conditions? where? when? with what type of machine? under what standards?
How old is he? How's his eyesight? In what language does he communicate?
Do we use the same machine for each test? Are we comparing the same fuels in the same machine? and so on!!!
We check all this under a bailiff, then we can start talking about impartiality, meanwhile, from everything we see, nothing is verifiable.
All this is quality work and certification eh!

Here ? This is the second layer ...
You already said exactly the same thing a little earlier in your post. It will end up being an obsession!

Do you realize how ridiculous it is to want to completely question the figures provided by people who do not really have an interest in producing data which does not benefit them, and on the other hand ask to believe your point of view WITHOUT ANY REFERENCES?

This is not a site that will report the truth about fuels, whatever they are, the stakes are far too high!
The truth you will know that if you do the tests yourself and with an IMPARTIAL method.
If you do that keep me posted, I would believe you more than the site!
Besides, I would be really curious to know the truth, because it is obvious that there is a pack of wolves behind all that !!!
The simple fact of knowing that our European neighbors do not practice the same energy policy at all, that flies in the ear.
Note that they live as well as us, if not better ...

The site you are talking about does not state at any time that it has the truth (or else I missed this essential passage ) ...
If you start to believe that everything you read or see is "THE TRUTH, you are badly crossed ...

Besides, you can't believe checking everything for yourself, it's an egocentric and unconstructive fad.

For my part, I find that the article leads us to reflect on certain facts which are not very clear, by putting forward figures that there is not really any objective reason to doubt and that is the most important.

The construction of a point of view on a subject is a long-term work, which must be done in a critical and constructive way, by ANALYZING what we read, by ASKING on the opposing points of view, by MULTIPLYING the sources of information and by SYNTHESIZING the information that is swallowed.

But surely not passionately and impulsively ...

[professeur31]

Show me the calibration certifications, the fuel compositions, the percentages of measurement errors.
Who checked? Who does he work for? in what conditions? where? when? with what type of machine? under what standards?
How old is he? How's his eyesight? In what language does he communicate?
Do we use the same machine for each test? Are we comparing the same fuels in the same machine? and so on!!!
We check all this under a bailiff, then we can start talking about impartiality, meanwhile, from everything we see, nothing is verifiable.
All this is quality work and certification eh!

But finally you realize what you write?
You question everything including your own measurements !!!
Is your eyesight good?
Are you the right age
What language do you speak?
The approved measurement and control procedures are strict and very relevant whatever you say.
They are carried out in all objectivity without any a priori by authorized organizations like UTAC.
Certainly LPG has its advantages but in no case does it have ONLY advantages; it also has unfortunately many drawbacks and I mentioned some in another post.
Believe me LPG is not the "miracle" fuel!
Besides, is there a miracle fuel that produces no pollution and that costs little?
I doubt!

[neant]

I realize what I am saying, since what I am telling you is exactly what happens in big production and in quality.

Do some quality in a certified company, you will see!
I did, and for aeronautics, you would turn pale green when you see the stack of quality documents accompanying a part ready to deliver to the customer.
Even the material is controlled! the provenance must be known!

I believe it is you who are not aware that you are too confident in certain sources.
Bucheron who refers to the ademe, I'm lol, it's a state organization !!!

And then speak, I see no arguments, no examples.
therefore, you speak in the wind there!
Finally, take me for an idiot, or a madman, or a sick person, or a je ne sais quoi!
I am like Saint Thomas, I believe, what I see.
And ON is a con ...
I know very well that I do not have the same way of reasoning from many people, but it is not as far as I reason like a bell !!!

It is not because they are bcp to pretend to be right that the minorities are twisted.
the reflection "you realize what you say"
Uh, are you trying to make me look like a sick person, because I'm not going in your favor?

[neant]

Show me the calibration certifications, the fuel compositions, the percentages of measurement errors.
Who checked? Who does he work for? in what conditions? where? when? with what type of machine? under what standards?
How old is he? How's his eyesight? In what language does he communicate?
Do we use the same machine for each test? Are we comparing the same fuels in the same machine? and so on!!!
We check all this under a bailiff, then we can start talking about impartiality, meanwhile, from everything we see, nothing is verifiable.
All this is quality work and certification eh!

But finally you realize what you write?
You question everything including your own measurements !!!
Is your eyesight good?
Are you the right age
What language do you speak?
The approved measurement and control procedures are strict and very relevant whatever you say.
They are carried out in all objectivity without any a priori by authorized organizations like UTAC.

* In the case of contaminated blood also the procedures were certified eh!
How many cases of this kind there in France?
The latest clearstream innovation, is it all clean certified too?

Why there are lies about health, and not about fuels.
I think you too are gullible!
How can we trust the state and all its organisms when we know that this very state has allowed people to get AIDS, and without even making love, poor people, they n (even not have fun !!!

[neant]

Bucheron, "you don't think the state can put you on by lying to you"
it will help you understand what I said.
sorry if i didn't use the word in the same sense as you, lol

You like communication problems you eh!

[neant]

A sibery LPG with the same composition as a Canadian LPG?
the starting hypothesis, mine.
Is the fuel used the same?
Already, when we see that somewhere it will be a good start for studies on pollution.
For the moment, I see only tables of figures.
Basically, cat pee. Nothing concrete.
I don't see a lot of tangible arguments!

In large production in the industry you have to know where it comes from, and up to the casting number of the material, the variations in resistance of the materials are sometimes huge because the castings did not happen in exactly the same way.
A few degrees Celsius difference cause changes in the structure of the material.

On billions of liters of lpg, on billions of liters of gasoline, diesel, whatever you want, you can't pretend, it's impossible, that whatever test they are, could be based.
Especially with resources from different geographic origins, with different transformation processes.
You necessarily get different products.

Just look at how the processors are made.
They are produced in series, and sorted, ball bearings are the same!
A Duron processor is, for example, made with the same materials as an Athlon, on the same production line, and yet, there is one which is a Duron and the other an Athlon.
the difference?
the Athlon has 256 memory cache, and the duron only has 64, because the cache is non-compliant, or not stable, in short, it is not identical !!!
It therefore does not have the same properties.
And even two Durons, will still not be exactly the same, one you can overclock more than the other.
it depends on the stepping, when it was made on the line, it also depends on many other things, like the core!
in short it depends on a lot of things!

Otherwise, all gasoline in the world are all the same, all lpg in the world are all the same, and for diesel, ditto?
must stop with the figures eh and want to make laws of everything, we are not able to perfectly stabilize anything, we evolve with tolerances!

If we take the example of a processor it is already quite difficult like that, and yet with computer software, to assess performance.

Lumberjack, I believe my nasal septum me, LPG it could be less than fuel and gasoline.
My nose is much more sophisticated than all the measuring devices of all the scientists in the world.
And this Bucheron nose, it transmits the information to my brain, if my brain judges the odor inadequate and causes physical reactions, egeurement for example, blocking of breathing for a few seconds because odor not bearable.
Have you ever had physical reactions like that on the street with diesel engines, with petrol engines?
I have already breathed the air that came out of a jar of liquefied vehicles, never have I had physical reactions similar to what diesel and petrol can cause!
Test, you will not die by doing this little comparison, and it will surely be more enriching than reading little pictures!
You can even start to draw conclusions.

A disgusting pinard I don't eat it eh, bah c pake it's not good, and I don't have tables of figures that give me the test results.
Even so, the wine could be of very good quality at the start, and then with a little time, it would be stale and would have turned sour.

Sacred Bucheron goes!

[Woodcutter]

[..] Bucheron who refers to the ademe, I'm lol, it's a state organization !!!

So what ?
In this article, ADEME provides indications on the prices and comparative costs of fuels it seems to me.
Things that must be fairly easily verifiable by crossing with other sources ...

And then speak, I see no arguments, no examples.
therefore, you speak in the wind there!

No arguments? No examples? What for ?
I refer, from the beginning, to UN article.
It is you who comes to tell me that this article is not true ... It is up to you to cite reliable documentary sources and not the opposite.
If you don't understand, too bad for you, I can't do much more ...

Finally, take me for an idiot, or a madman, or a sick person, or a je ne sais quoi!

I just take you for someone who is a little too intellectually limited to be able to offer a reasoned construct, that's all.

I know very well that I do not have the same way of reasoning from many people, but it is not as far as I reason like a bell !!!

In this case, it would rather be "ringing like a bell" that should be used ...

It is not because they are bcp to pretend to be right that the minorities are twisted.

Absolutely ! Did I say the opposite?

the reflection "you realize what you say"
Uh, are you trying to make me look like a sick person, because I'm not going in your favor?

It does not concern me because these are not my words, but I think that it is mainly because you come out of the aberrant enormities and this without in any way supporting them ...

If you came to chat saying, "Say guys, the numbers put out by Motor-Nature are weird, look what I've found elsewhere, which shows that patati-patata ..."well we could have had an interesting and constructive exchange ...

Your way of approaching the problem confines our contradictions to written confrontations, but it is only your fault, are you aware of this?

[Woodcutter]

[...] Bucheron, I believe my nasal partitions me, the LPG it could less than the disel and the gasoline.
My nose is much more sophisticated than all the measuring devices of all the scientists in the world.
And this Bucheron nose, it transmits the information to my brain, if my brain judges the odor inadequate and causes physical reactions, egeurement for example, blocking of breathing for a few seconds because odor not bearable.
Have you ever had physical reactions like that on the street with diesel engines, with petrol engines?
I have already breathed the air that came out of a jar of liquefied vehicles, never have I had physical reactions similar to what diesel and petrol can cause!
Test, you will not die by doing this little comparison, and it will surely be more enriching than reading little pictures!
You can even start to draw conclusions.

Another idea for you: go and breathe the combustion products of a very badly regulated gas heater which produces a large amount of CO ...
You will not feel ANYTHING, absolutely nothing ... Your little nose will be happy, it can tell your little brain that it is not dangerous!

And in a few minutes you will be dead ...

A disgusting pinard I don't eat it eh, bah c pake it's not good, and I don't have tables of figures that give me the test results.
Even so, the wine could be of very good quality at the start, and then with a little time, it would be stale and would have turned sour.

Sacred Bucheron goes!

Super comparisons .... And really adequate to illustrate the subject we are talking about. By the way, do you know a device that measures the taste of a wine? In which units is it expressed?

Foundry metal materials, microprocessors, wines ... What else do you have in stock?

Just a small clarification: I think that the pollutant measurements given by the manufacturers are averages (do you understand what it is?), Values statistics from several measures to, precisely, reduce the variability between measures that could possibly be due to possible variations in the composition of fuels, although I really wonder if that can change much ...
But it's still a guess.

[professeur31]

And not CO well !!!
colorless, odorless; the real killer what !!!
Come on, I can't help but give an example:
A gasoline-powered (or LPG) car producing 3.5% CO at idle runs in a 100m3 closed garage.
You are in this garage: you have 1.5 hours before losing consciousness and 2 hours after, you are in paradise

Get more serious now:
a latest generation gasoline car (1992) idles at 1.2% CO on average.
An LPG car, it stalls at 1.2% or in the best case the engine limps!
To get good LPG performance, you usually need 2.5% CO.
Don't worry, it goes very well at the CT; it's still revealing isn't it?