Something promised:
First, why delete the individual vehicle?
- when 80% of the French population is urban and more than 50% of Parisians use public transport, is it necessary to have 2 cars per household, with an occupancy rate of 1.3 to 1.6 people per car?
- polluting transport, even with hydrogen or electric propulsion
- energy consumer: 5 times more than a bus / coach, 10 times more than the tram, 15 times more than the train.
-poor performance: engine 30% (max) transmission 90%
-expensive. The assoc velocampus (Nantes) had estimated it 12 times more expensive (purchase, maintenance, consumption, insurance, breakage, therefore without counting the cost to society)
- rarely used, except in car sharing
- space consumer
- dangerous (hundreds of deaths on French roads last year)
-Absolute symbol of our society addicted to energy, and encouraging abhorrent individual behavior
How to delete the individual vehicle (some loose ideas):
-Rehabilitation of the sticker, calibrated on fiscal power, and creation of urban areas where, for example, vehicles of more than 6 fiscal horsepower cannot circulate in the hypercentre. The zones would be concentric around the hypercentre and progressive. The areas will be enlarged as the following means are put in place
-Develop an energy mix of electricity production, associated with the cogé
-Creation of a real public transport offer (tram, bus, coach, trains, TGV)
- moratorium on road construction, in any case motorway
-investment in operating company, and developing its transport, in order to "recycle" automotive jobs
-investment in education related to transport
-elec for rail, tram, bus. Gasifier gas or biogas for buses and coaches. Biofuel for coaches
-creation of a real carbon tax (well above the one currently being negotiated, like the Nordic countries)
-increase in bonus bonuses, not taking into account the electric car at the start
-creation of cycle paths and cyclo car-sharing network
We can also do without nuclear at the same time;)
I remind you that 12% of the GHG emissions of an average French are due to transport, and that it consumes a colossal amount of our energy resources.
It would make an excellent recovery plan and a lot of future prospects for the French. I think that a party can largely be elected in France (at least at the regional level) by including such a reform;). The difficulty with such a plan is that the duration required risks being badly accepted by the population.
If anyone has any other idea, where more precision on the figures, it is welcome;)
Delete the individual vehicle?
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elephant
- Econologue expert
- posts: 6646
- Registration: 28/07/06, 21:25
- Location: Charleroi, center of the world ....
- x 7
Tsss, Tssss!
Basically, you are not really strong in your arguments, but a certain way of life has developed, say since the sixties which involves a wide variety of trips with the background:
profitability
sustainability, due to lack of public transport (some industrial areas are inaccessible)
specificity of the missions (representative, convenience store, deliveryman)
lack of resources from the public authorities (so we take Zoé to dance lessons in the neighboring town, pcq the teacher is better and Hugo in the tennis club on the other side)
supplier optimization
transfer of one of the 2 members of the couple
allow a child to do an activity
take a child to a specific school
need to work 2 half-time (teachers)
optimization of leisure time
etc., etc....
on the one hand, a bit of selfishness, of course, but on the other, you are frankly heading towards collectivism
in fact, you send us back to the standard of living of the fifties
and don't come to talk to me about sending the children to the bus or bicycle: currently, it's considered too dangerous.
(In 1963, at 9 years old I made 2km by bike to go to school. We removed the cycle track to widen the road. Brrrrr)
Basically, you are not really strong in your arguments, but a certain way of life has developed, say since the sixties which involves a wide variety of trips with the background:
profitability
sustainability, due to lack of public transport (some industrial areas are inaccessible)
specificity of the missions (representative, convenience store, deliveryman)
lack of resources from the public authorities (so we take Zoé to dance lessons in the neighboring town, pcq the teacher is better and Hugo in the tennis club on the other side)
supplier optimization
transfer of one of the 2 members of the couple
allow a child to do an activity
take a child to a specific school
need to work 2 half-time (teachers)
optimization of leisure time
etc., etc....
on the one hand, a bit of selfishness, of course, but on the other, you are frankly heading towards collectivism
in fact, you send us back to the standard of living of the fifties
and don't come to talk to me about sending the children to the bus or bicycle: currently, it's considered too dangerous.
(In 1963, at 9 years old I made 2km by bike to go to school. We removed the cycle track to widen the road. Brrrrr)
0 x
elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
Impossible to make the automobile disappear!
I am in the countryside and can not live without a car, the height is that I have to transport my wife every morning and evening to the nearest bus stop.
It is hypotetic and impossible because public transport will never cover all areas!
You must live in the city!
I am in the countryside and can not live without a car, the height is that I have to transport my wife every morning and evening to the nearest bus stop.
It is hypotetic and impossible because public transport will never cover all areas!
You must live in the city!
0 x
Stepping behind sometimes can strengthen friendship.
Criticism is good if added to some compliments.
Alain
Criticism is good if added to some compliments.
Alain
In Belgium, the state tries this:
source http://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/mobilite/trois-ans-d%E2%80%99abonnement-de-bus-contre-sa-plaque-mineralogique
It is now 3 years of bus (TEC = bus). From memory, it was taken in ~ 6800 plates against a subscription
Deduct what you want
The operation which consists in exchanging your car license plate for a bus subscription in Wallonia has just been extended. The Walloon government has indeed confirmed the proposal of the Société Régionale Wallonne du Transport (SRWT) in this area.
The operation was launched in April 2006. Anyone who returns their license plate receives in exchange a free TEC free journey subscription, for one year. Today The subscription period will be extended to 3 years. The other novelty is that it will benefit the whole family and no longer just one person in the household.
source http://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/mobilite/trois-ans-d%E2%80%99abonnement-de-bus-contre-sa-plaque-mineralogique
It is now 3 years of bus (TEC = bus). From memory, it was taken in ~ 6800 plates against a subscription
Deduct what you want
0 x
Sometimes it is better to stop, reflect, and ask the right questions ...
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Philippe Schutt
- Econologue expert
- posts: 1611
- Registration: 25/12/05, 18:03
- Location: Alsace
- x 33
-
chatelot16
- Econologue expert
- posts: 6960
- Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
- Location: Angouleme
- x 264
when cars did not exist we had to be happy with horses and steam trains: at a certain time in France there were stations everywhere
when the price of energy is too high the train will resume its place: shame on those who put the tracks to scrap
while waiting for Ptilu if you want to advance public transport do it! but do not blame those who transport themselves as best they can with the means they have!
when the price of energy is too high the train will resume its place: shame on those who put the tracks to scrap
while waiting for Ptilu if you want to advance public transport do it! but do not blame those who transport themselves as best they can with the means they have!
0 x
Hello
Just try to travel by bus a real hassle, by train not even thinking about it
A guy who lives in Sorel who wants to go to Quebec by bus is forced to go against the direction or 80km to go to Montreal then backtrack and 300km to go to Quebec and it costs much less by car even on board ..
unthinkable public transport in rural areas
Find the train you have to travel an 80km by car to find a station
I've never been on a train in Canada
It takes the car for the slightest exit everything is far
Whether a person has two or three cars, a boat, an airplane, a snowmobile, that doesn't change much, he cannot be seated in all of them at the same time.
They just have to raise the price of oil, like they did for cigarettes and alcoholic beverages.
Andre
Alain G wrote:Impossible to make the automobile disappear!
I am in the countryside and can not live without a car, the height is that I have to transport my wife every morning and evening to the nearest bus stop.
It is hypotetic and impossible because public transport will never cover all areas!
You must live in the city!
Just try to travel by bus a real hassle, by train not even thinking about it
A guy who lives in Sorel who wants to go to Quebec by bus is forced to go against the direction or 80km to go to Montreal then backtrack and 300km to go to Quebec and it costs much less by car even on board ..
unthinkable public transport in rural areas
Find the train you have to travel an 80km by car to find a station
I've never been on a train in Canada
It takes the car for the slightest exit everything is far
Whether a person has two or three cars, a boat, an airplane, a snowmobile, that doesn't change much, he cannot be seated in all of them at the same time.
They just have to raise the price of oil, like they did for cigarettes and alcoholic beverages.
Andre
0 x
Not profitable? Are you kidding? Rail is not profitable only because it is a van-truck-train-truck-boat-truck-van ...
The SNCF network has not been extended since 1880! And you tell me that we are going back to the Middle Ages?
While the individualistic behavior that precipitates us in our individual vehicles dates from prehistoric times ...
In Marseille, where I have been exiled for 2 years, they have just opened a TER track between AIX and Marseille, and trains only run in one direction, while an armored highway also provides it with more than one million vehicles / day! With a two-way lane, 30% could be avoided against 10% With the current lane!
Analysis:
- no willingness of a politician to take adequate decisions
-project that drag so much by lack of will, that they are obsolete before even seeing the days
Another example :
The agglo Marseillaise has 4 express public transport routes: 2 tram, 2 metro, For 3 million inhabitants
The metro is already obsolete and saturated, and is in agony from the slightest storm.
The agglomeration of Nantes has a few hundred thousand inhabitants, for 3 trams and 1 busway, and another expressway in the pipeline!
The agglo Marseillaise is saturated, polluted and unlivable. The disadvantaged neighborhoods are not served, and neither are the universities.
Nantes with all its connected facs, and more than a single district which is not linked to the tram network, at least up to track 5 ... But it already has its cogeneration network;)
Which city is the best place to live? A city overpolluted and very poorly served (2 hours to cross it), or a city where it takes barely 1 hour to cross it from north to south, and 40 minutes from east to west ... Agglo included.
80% of the French population lives in the city, Why don't they even think about public transport in your opinion?
Don't worry, I come from the countryside, from Mayenne (more cow than inhabitants) precisely, and I know very well what rural life is;). The east-west axis is very well served, thanks to a SNCF track;) The general council supports students studying in Laval, and who come from Evron (30km), travel time: 20 minutes! I took the school bus for 6 years, and when I was little, I went to the village primary school by bike!
I know Normandy well, and the bus network is not too bad. You party in Caen, and you can return until 11 am in the countryside, and probably 00 am in Agglo ...
In Marseille, the metro becomes unmanageable after 10am ...
Besides, why does the Marseilles administration recognize that they are 30 years behind in terms of transport when it is the kingdom of the madmen of the steering wheels, if the disappearance of the car brings us back to 1950?
And besides, you raised another question: why is our activity so extensive?
The urban population took 10% when its surface took 20%
Is it that the individual house model, individual car, individual bag meal, individual life has shown us so much evidence in terms of human development?
And what to do in the developing countries, or one has the impression that they follow the same model, but without the same resources, and with an anarchic urban development, leading to the formation of super slums of 10 million inhabitants?
The oil production peak is reached. Which means that the perole will strongly increase. Are we going to reserve it for chemistry (plastic is fantastic, rubber is super soft), or burn the last drops to preserve our pride by going to get our baguette.
Hydrogen has shown the viability of this sector, because yields will never compete with electricity. And let's not even talk about logistics
Electricity to power our dear cars (in both directions of the thermal)? A month of sacrificing our descendants on the hotel of consumption, killed under mountains of radioactive waste. And don't even think about developing a mix of renewable energy to compensate for your thirst for bitumen ... It would take 2 times more than for the public transport solution.
Biofuels? At the cost of hunger for half the earth's population ...
There is no shortage of solutions ... How long are we going to hang on to our greedy tuture?
PS: it's true I base myself a lot on personal experiences, but I think you have to see it to believe it
The SNCF network has not been extended since 1880! And you tell me that we are going back to the Middle Ages?
While the individualistic behavior that precipitates us in our individual vehicles dates from prehistoric times ...
In Marseille, where I have been exiled for 2 years, they have just opened a TER track between AIX and Marseille, and trains only run in one direction, while an armored highway also provides it with more than one million vehicles / day! With a two-way lane, 30% could be avoided against 10% With the current lane!
Analysis:
- no willingness of a politician to take adequate decisions
-project that drag so much by lack of will, that they are obsolete before even seeing the days
Another example :
The agglo Marseillaise has 4 express public transport routes: 2 tram, 2 metro, For 3 million inhabitants
The metro is already obsolete and saturated, and is in agony from the slightest storm.
The agglomeration of Nantes has a few hundred thousand inhabitants, for 3 trams and 1 busway, and another expressway in the pipeline!
The agglo Marseillaise is saturated, polluted and unlivable. The disadvantaged neighborhoods are not served, and neither are the universities.
Nantes with all its connected facs, and more than a single district which is not linked to the tram network, at least up to track 5 ... But it already has its cogeneration network;)
Which city is the best place to live? A city overpolluted and very poorly served (2 hours to cross it), or a city where it takes barely 1 hour to cross it from north to south, and 40 minutes from east to west ... Agglo included.
80% of the French population lives in the city, Why don't they even think about public transport in your opinion?
Don't worry, I come from the countryside, from Mayenne (more cow than inhabitants) precisely, and I know very well what rural life is;). The east-west axis is very well served, thanks to a SNCF track;) The general council supports students studying in Laval, and who come from Evron (30km), travel time: 20 minutes! I took the school bus for 6 years, and when I was little, I went to the village primary school by bike!
I know Normandy well, and the bus network is not too bad. You party in Caen, and you can return until 11 am in the countryside, and probably 00 am in Agglo ...
In Marseille, the metro becomes unmanageable after 10am ...
Besides, why does the Marseilles administration recognize that they are 30 years behind in terms of transport when it is the kingdom of the madmen of the steering wheels, if the disappearance of the car brings us back to 1950?
And besides, you raised another question: why is our activity so extensive?
The urban population took 10% when its surface took 20%
Is it that the individual house model, individual car, individual bag meal, individual life has shown us so much evidence in terms of human development?
And what to do in the developing countries, or one has the impression that they follow the same model, but without the same resources, and with an anarchic urban development, leading to the formation of super slums of 10 million inhabitants?
The oil production peak is reached. Which means that the perole will strongly increase. Are we going to reserve it for chemistry (plastic is fantastic, rubber is super soft), or burn the last drops to preserve our pride by going to get our baguette.
Hydrogen has shown the viability of this sector, because yields will never compete with electricity. And let's not even talk about logistics
Electricity to power our dear cars (in both directions of the thermal)? A month of sacrificing our descendants on the hotel of consumption, killed under mountains of radioactive waste. And don't even think about developing a mix of renewable energy to compensate for your thirst for bitumen ... It would take 2 times more than for the public transport solution.
Biofuels? At the cost of hunger for half the earth's population ...
There is no shortage of solutions ... How long are we going to hang on to our greedy tuture?
PS: it's true I base myself a lot on personal experiences, but I think you have to see it to believe it
0 x
The question is:
Do you want the end of oil with or without the mess?
For Canada, it is true that your rail network is largely under development unlike ours, even if I already insisted on the fact that we were missing a lot in France.
So stop me if I say bullshit
Take the example of your neighbor the USA, because I don't know Canada very well, but I have the impression that your development model is still modeled on them.
Rail played a considerable role in development (you just have to watch a few Westerns to get an idea), but when the airways became reliable, the air lobby became so powerful that most of the railway companies put the key under the door. As a result, at the start of the 21st century, only one of these companies remains ...
And rail has become a folklore mode rather than a real transport. Yet our dear mr muscle governor of California seems to believe in the success of rail:
A TGV project is currently being studied to link Los Angeles to San Francisco ...
Bizzare right?
How many high-speed lines are there in Canada? Railroad tracks?
I find it hard to believe that you care so much about this prehistoric vehicle that costs you so much that you let it mold in a garage most of the time ...
Why are you interested in the future sustainable development if you do not even see further than: It is impossible
Seeing further is our only chance today.
Do you want the end of oil with or without the mess?
For Canada, it is true that your rail network is largely under development unlike ours, even if I already insisted on the fact that we were missing a lot in France.
So stop me if I say bullshit
Take the example of your neighbor the USA, because I don't know Canada very well, but I have the impression that your development model is still modeled on them.
Rail played a considerable role in development (you just have to watch a few Westerns to get an idea), but when the airways became reliable, the air lobby became so powerful that most of the railway companies put the key under the door. As a result, at the start of the 21st century, only one of these companies remains ...
And rail has become a folklore mode rather than a real transport. Yet our dear mr muscle governor of California seems to believe in the success of rail:
A TGV project is currently being studied to link Los Angeles to San Francisco ...
Bizzare right?
How many high-speed lines are there in Canada? Railroad tracks?
I find it hard to believe that you care so much about this prehistoric vehicle that costs you so much that you let it mold in a garage most of the time ...
Why are you interested in the future sustainable development if you do not even see further than: It is impossible
Seeing further is our only chance today.
0 x
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