Definition and implications of the clean car concept

[zac]

Hello
Provisional if we talk about sunflower rapeseed or sugar cane; but perennial if we talk about dyatata and cogeneration
@+

[Philippe Schutt]

But hey the argument "anyway biofuel it is useless since it will never replace oil" has a tendency to really get on my nerves ...

In fact, it's not quite that. Biofuels are used, as long as we have heat engines, alone or in hybrids.
However, from the moment you have an electric motor with batteries in cars, the manufacturers always seeking to reduce costs, the tendency will be to eliminate the thermal part. as a result, no more oil or biofuel.
That's why I think it can only be temporary. Provisional which is likely to last a long time if there is not a technological leap in the batteries.

[Philippe Schutt]

Hello
Provisional if we talk about sunflower rapeseed or sugar cane; but perennial if we talk about dyatata and cogeneration
@+

mobile cogeneration, by car?

[Live products]

Short supply chain means that there are very few intermediaries between the producer and the consumer, unlike the current "fuel" sectors which are very centralized and concentrated.

Ok, I did not understand in the same sense, it is that I am not yet used to technical terms.

[zac]

Hello
Provisional if we talk about sunflower rapeseed or sugar cane; but perennial if we talk about dyatata and cogeneration
@+

mobile cogeneration, by car?

Hello

Well no; the cogenerator he is at home and we charge the car with

@+

[Christophe]

The .pdf is available on the site: https://www.econologie.com/telechargement-3090.html

[Rulian]

I fly over this thread that I had not read for a while and I am surprised to see a lot of utopian reveries around electric cars (100% or hybrid).

I remind you that electric accumulators are made from rare and extremely polluting metals. The immediate consequence is that mass industrial production of individual electric vehicles will be impossible, due to a lack of resources, and frankly undesirable given the ecological cost of these gadgets. Besides, that does not answer the question: with what to recharge the batteries of our dear machines?

I remind you that electricity hardly represents more than 20% of the total energy consumed in France (the rest coming from fossil fuels, largely for transport use) and that we are already incapable of producing it with energies renewable. So I really don't see how we will produce the remaining 80% of energy with these same renewable sources ... or how we will recharge these cars. Nuclear ? It represents only 17 or 18% of the total energy consumed in France and at constant consumption the uranium resource cannot last more than 50 years. So if nuclear power were to cover 80% to 100% of our energy, we would find ourselves with ten years of resources in the best of cases, not enough to show off. As for the merger, it never suggested that we would get something out of it for a good century ... assuming we could really get something out of it.

Knowing that the cultivable lands on the planet cannot supply more than 10% to 20% of the current world truck / car fleet (for all types of biofuels, including hvb), it is clearly obvious that the future of the automobile will sinking at the same time as oil production (reminder of the forecast date for peak oil: 2010).

So frankly, I still don't see the point of thinking about a hypothetical clean car, since in any case the future of the private car is inevitably doomed for want of fuel (whatever its form and source), we like it or not. The "transitory" side of biofuels does not make sense either, because a transition is used to go towards something else or there we will go towards ... nothing! And personally, I find this to be excellent news.

I refer you to the reading of Jancovici's book: "Fill it up please".

Rulian, joy flap

[Christophe]

I fly over this thread that I had not read for a while and I am surprised to see a lot of utopian reveries around electric cars (100% or hybrid).

I remind you that electric accumulators are made from rare and extremely polluting metals. The immediate consequence is that mass industrial production of individual electric vehicles will be impossible, due to a lack of resources, and frankly undesirable given the ecological cost of these gadgets. Besides, that does not answer the question: with what to recharge the batteries of our dear machines?

+1 but we are waiting for the blue because eh

As for primary energy, effectively if it does not come from a renewable source it is hardly lost in terms of CO2 (it can even be worse than burning fuel directly with old coal-fired power plants. ..)

[Philippe Schutt]

electric accumulators are made from rare and extremely polluting metals. The immediate consequence is that mass industrial production of individual electric vehicles will be impossible, due to a lack of resources, and frankly undesirable given the ecological cost of these gadgets ...

Not so polluting, since we recycle them. On the contrary, by extracting these products, the soil is decontaminated.
scarcity actually poses a problem with current batteries. terrestrial lithium resources are estimated at only 12 million tonnes, and will be required for fusion reactors.
The battery of the future cannot be based on this metal if the ITER project and its DEMO suite succeed.

Besides, that does not answer the question: with what to recharge the batteries of our dear machines?

with electricity
1. In our current electricity generation system, 70% of the energy is lost
2. Housing is a potential source of enormous savings, both in fossil fuels and electricity. solar devices are still in their infancy, the potential of this field is very vast

And even if we don't like, with the new Canadian and African deposits, + those that we don't yet know, we probably have oil for this whole century. and we don't cause synthetic essence.

Finally, even if our car was condemned in about 50 years as the alarmists + predicted (but they have already postponed their date), at the rate of one car every 8 years it would still be 6 to 7 cars. investment in research would still be profitable.

Hoping to have cheered you up ... you're not going to depress us, are you?

[Rulian]

Your Canadian and African deposits (you forget the Caspian and the Russian far-east by the way) are already included in the forecast of peak-oil for 2010. See on oleocene.com or ASPO.
Then it is very easy to liquefy coal to have fuel, the Germans did it a lot during the 2nd world war. But I let you think about the climatic suicide that it would imply.

On the batteries, I think you have big illusions about the potential of recycling and how the soil is polluted / cleaned up. As for the batteries of the future ... since we do not know what it will be, it does not seem reasonable to bet on it (we would have more chance of winning the euro-million).

Besides, ITER being a magnificent fiasco announced (but in only forty years), it is sure that it is a "real solution for the future" ... (I will try to prepare a small summary of the history of research on controlled fusion to convince you ... if I find good sources of course).

To finish, I will pass for a Cassandre, but it is not in 50 rods that the car of the average pleupleu is condemned ... it is in 25 years at best! Read Jancovici, name of Zeus, if he wrote his book it's not for dogs. And what he tells there is not his own delirium but a summary of recurrent theses that we find in full of serious and very diverse sources for years.

You didn't cheer me up, on the contrary. This obstinacy to keep blinders and to be lulled in illusory chimeras on the world energy situation has a tendency to annoy me with the drone. Finally, if your illusions make you happier ... the problem is the climatic suicide that they may involve.

I spend most of my spare time studying these questions for three or four years and I do my best to make it my job. You would have to offer me more substantial and credible things than obscure research projects if you want me to change my mind. Your answer is roughly summed up in the usual "we will find something good" which is nothing but a kick in touch on energy issues.