Dacia Sandero LPG at a 8700, 6700 5700 not euros!

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coucou789456
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by coucou789456 » 14/07/09, 00:10

Good evening

the automatic gearbox, in France, a dream, a utopia, not recommended even by dealers when in 1995 I wanted to acquire one, they added a rather derogatory remark pretending that the car would be unsaleable second-hand, etc ...
considered luxury equipment since the fiscal power was increased by 1 CV compared to a manual gearbox (for an identical engine) ...
moreover if you pass the driving license on an automatic gearbox, a mention is written there, which obliges you to drive only in cars with automatic gearbox, vulgarly named by the administration "fitted out vehicle", implied" handicapped ".

there is a long way to go before really democratizing this type of gearbox, provided you don't have too many CVs under the hood, which encourages you to press the mushroom regularly to double ...

jeff
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by yannko » 14/07/09, 09:51

Thank you for these details :).

It seems that modifying a diesel to burn gas is therefore not "that" complicated, as you said citro, the manufacturers are self-limiting by offering only makeshift solutions, no study for a segment of uncertain market.

Indeed, the electric car seems ideal :P, but I'm waiting to see how the prices evolve. Otherwise, it is clear that this is a pretty interesting solution, especially if you have the chance to make your own electricity. : Mrgreen: .

For auto transmissions, I have often heard stupid stories about it, that it is boring, that we "smell" less of the vehicle, that it is too expensive, that it requires care and a driving style. particular, etc ... as the cuckoo says, no need to broach the issue with the dealers or even the driving schools, it's nonsense once again :frown: , especially that by traveling a little (Germany, Austria, Hungary, Slovakia, etc ...), we see a lot of equipped cars, so it's still a French-French nonsense more :? !
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by Did67 » 14/07/09, 12:03

Citro: your auto gearbox which consumes less, once again you surprise me. I never had a car. I have sometimes (rarely) driven it. I am not against. But on manufacturers' tablets, on a mid-range car (like C5, laguna), the theoretical consumption is still around 0,5 l / 100 higher ???

Unsaleable: given the image, it's true; I have a colleague who inherited a superb Laguna with all options "automatic gearbox" when his father-in-law died; he struggled to sell it, well below the price ... We can regret it, it's a reality ...

Now, I think we need to clarify: the arrival of the new generation of robotic boxes (like "tiptronic", "machintronic" and "biduletronic") has significantly changed the debate; they erase a lot of faults from the old boxes - unfortunately, mentalities change less quickly. The older generation of gearboxes were often limited to 4 speeds. Now the news is 5 or even 6 speeds!

Finally, that the technique is more popular in Germany, Austria, etc ...: they have a fleet of "high-end" vehicles more important than us! The additional cost is less marked on a BMW at 30 euros than on a C000!
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by coucou789456 » 14/07/09, 12:03

Hello

yannko wrote:Thank you for these details :).

It seems that modifying a diesel to burn gas is therefore not "that" complicated, as you said citro, the manufacturers are self-limiting by offering only makeshift solutions, no study for a segment of uncertain market.

...............

...............
, so it's still a Franco French nonsense more:? !


for diesel, I don't see how the gas can be burned if there is no spark.

and for the French-French nonsense, the LPG arises a little there. it was enough in the early days of using a few accidents that resulted in a fire for the LPG to be condemned almost systematically.

jeff
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by Did67 » 14/07/09, 12:21

"Franco-French absurdity"? Let's not be systematically (and unnecessarily?) Masochistic !!!

1) as far as I know, the systems installed in France are of Dutch origin (for those I know) or Italian ... There are surely others ...

2) To tell the truth, Citro, if I understand the LPG Diesel "in principle", does it actually exist?

3) I think gasoline engines can be converted more easily: all you have to do is "hijack" the computer, fix the LPG injectors on the supply pipes, etc ... So it's simple ... Both systems coexist ...

It seems to me much more difficult to adapt this to a Diesel (even if the principle is simple). Citro, you correct me: if you want to have your ignition called up, you cannot "suck" the LPG through the pipes, but you have to inject it (liquid) precisely at the instant t ... Or I do not understand the Diesel ?????

4) That it is "developable", I do not doubt it at all. Do not forget that there are still gasoline injection engines (to push the compression ratios). So with an injection pump suitable for LPG + ignition system if the LPG does not fall down quickly or at the right time, the trick should be played.

But there we fall back on the "manufacturers" box (who have never mobilized, because it remains a niche market - let's be clear!). "Adapters" will continue to modify gasoline engines, in my opinion. Completely modifying a Diesel, in my opinion, it would be expensive (see the price of an injection pump!) ...

So let's not be too harsh with French manufacturers. I don't want to defend them, but hey ...!
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by I Citro » 14/07/09, 15:27

coucou789456 wrote:for diesel, I don't see how the gas can be burned if there is no spark.
And with a flame, it is no better than with a spark. :?:
I explained that we let the diesel work "at idle" and that it is the flame caused by the self-ignition of the diesel that ignites the LPG.
:?
coucou789456 wrote:it was enough in the early days of using a few accidents that resulted in a fire for the LPG to be condemned almost systematically.
Certainly the French homologation services were null by prohibiting, during the introduction of LPG in France, the compulsory safety valve everywhere else in the world. It took ONE accident in which a firefighter lost a leg for France to reverse this stupid decision. The valves became compulsory as well as the leveling of the vehicles in circulation (exceptional case of retroactive law).
Did67 wrote:2) To tell the truth, Citro, if I understand the LPG Diesel "in principle", does it actually exist?
Yes, this exists on heavy goods vehicles and other buses in LPG or CNG operation (only the CNG storage pressure differs). It works very well and we didn't break our heads, it's very simple. The distribution of LPG in a diesel engine is done in the same way as in a petrol engine.
It is the opening of the intake valve and the descent of the piston which sucks in the air and the LPG.
The difference between aspirated or injected LPG systems is the same as between carburetor or injection gasoline systems ...
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by coucou789456 » 14/07/09, 19:25

Good evening

apparently topgas proposed a solution with diesel, an element found in another forum, but in 2007. since then, obviously on the togas site, no more mention on the subject.

http://www.techniconnexion.com/discussi ... -t7874.htm

another document from the CNRS dating from 2002 concerning LPG on diesel engine: http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14439217

yet another document: http://www.iwemalpg.com/Diesel_LPG.htm

FYI, actually no more than thirty LPG pumps for all of Spain, plus fuel reserved for taxis and utility vehicles, so if you have a 100% LPG avoid Spain, go directly to Portugal where more than 100 pumps are waiting for you

jeff
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by I Citro » 14/07/09, 21:26

coucou789456 wrote:... so if you have a 100% LPG avoid Spain ...
There are almost no LPG vehicles in monofuel (petrol tank less than 15 liters, it seems to me).
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by coucou789456 » 15/07/09, 01:17

Good evening

a subject on LPG + diesel already exists on econology ....
https://www.econologie.com/forums/diesel-gpl-t2534.html

jeff
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by I Citro » 15/07/09, 07:54

coucou789456 wrote:a subject on LPG + diesel already exists on econology ....
https://www.econologie.com/forums/diesel-gpl-t2534.html
Mea culpa, I should have mentioned it earlier, having participated ... :?
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