Consumption DCi, HDi ...

[Christophe]

By leafing "by chance" Action Auto Moto magazine talking about pantone, I realize that the mixed consumption tests of the latest DCi are as follows:

Ford Fiesta 1.6 TDci GHIA, 90 hp: 6,5 L / 100 (mini 5,6)
Citroen C3 Hdi air conditioning pack, 70 hp: 6,6 L / 100 (mini 5,6)
New Clio 1.5 comfort expression, 68 hp: 7 L / 100 (mini 6)

Nothing miraculous when you know that Olivier's 1992 ZxTD consumes between 5,5 and 6L per 100 for 92 hp and that it soon has 300 km ... Detractors will say that the conditions of comfort and safety are not the same obviously ... but then when I hear the manufacturers say that they do everything they can to lower consumption and pollution, excuse me but it makes me laugh ... the worst is that people believe it ...

Finally a consumption of 7L / 100 is considered "sober" by the magazine ...

[Woodcutter]

You touch the problems of recent years in the automobile ...

Namely the continuous increase in the weight of vehicles and the same increase in tire sizes, 2 related factors that go completely against energy savings.

FYI, my 1991 XM TD weighs around 1400 kg for 4,70 m, shoe size 195/65 * 15 and I consume on average 7,5 l with ...

Imagine an AX from the early 1990s with an Hdi engine now, I think it would drop below 3 l / 100!
But who would want it?

[Christophe]

Imagine an AX from the early 1990s with an Hdi engine now, I think it would drop below 3 l / 100!
But who would want it?

The AX diesel from the years 85-90 (I don't know the exact years) was 4L / 100.

I don't really understand your remark "But who would want it?" ... I would rather be of the opinion to rephrase: "But who would build it?"

Unless you think about the driving pleasure and comfort of modern vehicles ...

[freddau]

Well then we will make a Logan DCi.

There are a lot of people ready to build such cars. Just see the Chinese, Romanians etc ...

And I think that the French / German will have to cut corners on their comfort anyway, whatever happens.

[Christophe]

Comfort, comfort ... a fine pretext but how far will they go to legitimize current over-consumption?

Personally I only have a motorbike (VFR 750 of 94 @ 5,2L / 100 for 95 hp) ... so I already have the original integrated air conditioning and ultrasonic massages / vibration in the wrists, not to mention , an exclusive VFR system for warming ankles / thighs with hot air .

That is the demand of the people ?

[Woodcutter]

[...] The diesel AX of the years 85-90 (I do not know the exact years) made 4L / 100.

Rather 4,5 l in actual use, but 3,6 l normalized at 90 km / h (not fully comparable to the Euromix now)

I don't really understand your remark "But who would want it?" ... I would rather be of the opinion to rephrase: "But who would build it?"

Unless you think about the driving pleasure and comfort of modern vehicles ...

Yep, now people are buying EuroNCAP stars (not even sure the AX could have had one ... ), airbags and ABS, air conditioning and comfort equipment, but not cars ...
So even if someone built it, nobody would buy it! There is only to see the retreat of Renault with the DACIA which do not correspond to the "stripped" models promised at the start.

Another little example of evolution, my first car was a Opel Kadett from 1969, measuring 4,20 m for 740 kg ... We were leaving in 4 plus luggage!
Inside => NOTHING! (for "comfort")
Small 1100 cc engine with technology from the 3s and 50s => consumption of around 60 liters.
Today, even a Smart ForTwo (2,55 m) weighs 900 kg ... But it is more comfortable, infinitely better equipped, much safer, etc ...

[Christophe]

Safety is a false commercial argument ... the drop in road deaths is due more to a change in behavior than to passive or active safety and technological developments. I would say 10 to 20% for technology. Good but I base myself on the dead, for the light or medium injured it can be different ... Anyway the figures of road safety are so easily "falsifiable" (by modifying the counting rules for example) ...

I don't think people realize that the "Five stars" test crashes are made at 40 km / h ... and that a shock at 100 km / h (power required: 30 hp) is almost guaranteed death. ... so we make super powerful cars capable of 160 km / h at maximum speed at the "minimum" while making people believe that they are "protected" in their cocoon ... by the 5 stars ... It is an illusion! Obviously this legitimizes overpower from a marketing point of view ...

It's a bit the same with the air conditioning and filters in the passenger compartment, but from the point of view of pollution: an air conditioning means that you no longer have to open the window .... the driver is "protected" (chemically and thermally) and totally disempowerment ... since his senses are simply no longer assaulted.

This is how few people smell the "chlorine" smell that emanate from the psa and mercedes FAPs ... All cyclists or bikers know this well ... But hey this "product" is not part of the list auto standards, so it must not pollute ....

[Woodcutter]

[..] I don't think people realize that the "Five stars" test crashes are done at 40 km / h ... and that a shock at 100 km / h (power required: 30 hp) is the almost insured death .... [...]

I find that in your last posts, you say lots of things with which I do not agree and many of which are false according to my knowledge (which are not exhaustive ...).

There I can prove it to you. EuroNCAP tests are carried out at 64 km / h.

On the other hand, it is true that if the tests were carried out at 100 km / h, the results would be very different.

[Christophe]

64 ok ... I'm not an expert on the subject but it has changed recently ... because I had always seen / read / heard that it was 40 km / h.

No doubt an "upward" evolution of security standards ...

But finally 64 (besides pkoi 64? Pkoi 40?) It's still 15 to 20 hp of engine power ... so ridiculous value compared to the power of vehicles ... therefore not at all significant of reality. ..and that's what I "criticize" ... But obviously it would be enough to show a 5 star car after a collision at 110 ... and sales would collapse ...

What else do you think is wrong?

[The Passing]

Still, with the CO2 emission limit of 140g / km that new cars will have in 2008, we will have to sacrifice something between weight and / or power

I always believe very hard in an electric + thermal car on the model of diesel locomotives where the thermal engine is only used to provide electric current which feeds its electric motor (s).

In this area diesel engines could finally be used to their advantage: rather stabilized regime.