further investigation: the clean car, fool's bargain!

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
Christophe
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further investigation: the clean car, fool's bargain!




by Christophe » 20/10/08, 14:03

To see this evening at 23 p.m., a program on escrology or greenwashing of the green car ... I contributed very modestly to this program (see below).

Edit, here are 2 video extracts from the show

a) Interview with Serge Dassault about Cleanova

b) The report on the air car


Clean car: The Fool's Market

It has become the cream pie of all auto shows: the "green" car!

At the Paris Motor Show, manufacturers are constantly praising their less polluting models, or those that consume little.
With its bonus-malus, the government claims to favor vehicles that emit less CO2.
But is the clean car really for tomorrow? Behind their stated will, do manufacturers really play the game of the green car? Why are alternative solutions to fuel still stalled?

In a France still as addicted to the automobile, further investigation into the false promises of the clean car.


Bonus horus horribilis
A report by Clément Castex and Antonin Broutard

Behind the advertising discourse, are the new manufacturers' models really less polluting? Is the reduction in CO2 emissions sufficient? And is the penalty bonus awarded to the cleanest vehicles?

Who killed the electric car?
A report by Séverine Lebrun

The one presented as the ecological and economic solution of the future has never conquered the general public. Why did the manufacturers not develop this process? Did we want to kill the electric car?

A highway at any cost
A report by Edouard Perrin

Was it really necessary to build the A65, connecting Pau to Langon for 150 km? While the excavators have already ripped open the landscape, doubts remain: will it one day be profitable? Is the highway too much?

An engineer who does not lack air
A report by Thomas Horeau and Annie Triboire

It has been fifteen years since Guy Nègre, a Nice business owner and former Formula 1 engineer, claims to have found the solution to automobile pollution: a compressed air engine! Its prototype seduced India, but not France. Why ?


http://info.france2.fr/complement-denqu ... 463-fr.php

ps: I participated very modestly in this program by helping a journalist (Thomas Horeau) 3 weeks ago. He wanted an opinion on Mdi's air car (and you know what I think about it ...). So we exchanged a few emails and had a phone discussion of about an hour. I redirected it to other more interesting solutions.

Here is an excerpt from the 1st email I sent him:

Christophe by email to the journalist wrote:I no longer wish to speak about this technology because Mdi has threatened us with defamation several times.
Air is not a good energy vector (it is even catastrophic overall) and Mdi has been lying for 10 years by promising marketing that does not happen!

That's all I would say on the subject. I think that the media are the first responsible for this enduring technological intoxication ... by relaunching the idea of ​​their next release regularly!

If you are looking for sustainable solutions, you should rather be interested in Laigret synthetic oil.
( https://www.econologie.com/projet-laigre ... -3917.html ), solar concentration (work by Perrier, DESERTEC project
https://www.econologie.com/forums/desertec-e ... t5338.html ), to the thermal energy of the seas ( https://www.econologie.com/forums/energie-th ... t4853.html
) or micro algae (3rd generation biofuel)

Here is a summary page which presents different sustainable solutions:
https://www.econologie.com/energies-du-f ... -3750.html

By combining these solutions and learning to consume energy better, the energy crisis is permanently resolved! But today is the time to invest not in 100 years ...
Last edited by Christophe the 24 / 10 / 08, 10: 13, 1 edited once.
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by Christophe » 20/10/08, 14:05

By the way for those who missed it, the previous shows are available in Stream on the France2 site so I guess it will be the same for this show.
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evolutionnair
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Economic neutrality and defamation on the air car




by evolutionnair » 20/10/08, 17:51

I am surprised to learn that an engineer and webmaster of this same site does not commit nor his neutrality on a subject as important as the clean car with compressed air and its French production on a world scale!

Wanting to influence the journalist who carried out the report in further investigation into the so-called lies of MDI and its engineer CEO Guy Nègre seems to me dishonest in my turn unless arguments also prove it I hope that a right answer will be opened in this forum on the subject:

AN ENGINEER WHO DOES NOT LACK AIR The title of the report should also bring air to our mill for those who will watch it this evening on France 2 : Shock: : Mrgreen: :?:

I will not boast that much for having contributed to this report by talking about escrology : Evil: Good luck!
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by Christophe » 20/10/08, 18:01

Your message is not very clear ... you did not present yourself either but given your nickname I think you are pro air motor ...

I am only defending common sense (a company that has been promising since 1995 to be marketed within 18 months has, in 2008, no longer any credibility now I am not saying that Mdi did not have a stick in the wheels far from it ...) and I certainly did not influence the choice of the title of the report (the journalist already had his ideas before contacting me) and even less on that of the program "market of dupes" that means what that means.

I just said that overall (ie in relation to primary energy) the efficiency of an air motor can only be bad compared to electric propulsion even with, let us dream, compressor and motor efficiency of 60%. The reality of these yields is far below ...

However an electric car already pollutes (and not only a little on CO2): https://www.econologie.com/voiture-elect ... -3944.html

Cryogenic storage is, I think, much better but more complex and only in hybrid: https://www.econologie.com/forums/stockage-c ... t6344.html

We will see the content of the report ... if it is neutral, pro or anti air motor ... I hope it will be the 1st choice ...

ps: it's been 18 months since the contract with Tata was signed: where are the Indian prototypes?
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by Christophe » 20/10/08, 18:13

evolutionnair wrote:I will not boast that much for having contributed to this report by talking about escrology : Evil: Good luck!


Why is that? When something stinks I say it is air or an electric car being called 0 emission but powered by coal electricity ... I have no interest in either or in the other solution ...

Currently (not sure that it will ever be) to speak of a "clean" car is untrue ... It is the very concept of the private car that is currently the problem (but things are changing in people's minds at least but very slowly ).

MDI makes good vehicle concepts (light, urban ..) too bad it wants to propel them into the air... Because their cars equipped with small diesel engines (600 cm3 bi or 3 cylinders) assembled under license (kubota, honda ...) could have been sold for already 10 years ... with very interesting urban performances (3 to 4L / 100 in 1998) ...

ps: when you say: "the clean compressed air car" on what do you base yourself to say that it is "clean"? How many kWh EP per km stp?
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by bpval » 20/10/08, 19:25

Dear evolutionary man

I live in Nice and I am strongly interested in your concept, which I admit, has already had repercussions in local newspapers.

When exactly is it?

How can I acquire this vehicle?
Will it be only on an experimental basis
Currently I travel by scooter and being able to have a vehicle that will shelter me from bad weather excites me !!

Is there an easy way to access my request?

cordially

Sincerely
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by Christophe » 20/10/08, 19:43

Well bpval, he never said he belonged or worked for Mdi ...
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by Gregconstruct » 20/10/08, 19:52

When we see what it eats as energy to produce compressed air, I do not understand that one can have the nerve to say that this kind of vehicle is ecological !!!
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by bpval » 20/10/08, 19:55

Andre ... Captain ... Remundo ... Sunflower ... Rodibruno
All others

HELP ... Chris lets go of me

Damned...

Hello
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by Christophe » 20/10/08, 19:57

Yep Greg! Compressed air is a crappy energy carrier! There are no other words, the only interest is if it is obtained from a renewable source not storable otherwise!

The problem is that a lot of journalists and people have a science culture close to zero ... absolute ... so they swallow and they relay poisons ...

You can't blame them (we're all ignorant in certain areas) but journalists it is a professional mistake to relay poisons because they have a (at least moral) duty to verify and cross-check information before publishing or disseminating their info!

This is why I can't wait to see how Thomas Horeau treated the subject ... If it's an apology for the air motor, I feel that I'm going to get angry especially since I had him on the phone. .. well we will see ...

ps: but no Bp don't let go ...
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