further investigation: the clean car, fool's bargain!

[Christophe]

1st summary Who killed the electric car? A report by Séverine Lebrun

a) A 72 year old grandmother made a fortune in art. It builds prototypes of electric vehicles. It has 3: 180km / h and 450 km (?!?) Of autonomy announced. Comfort on the other hand quite spartan.
"To do things well, you have to love your passion more than your cash drawer" says the septuagenarian.

b) In 1942: the electric egg of Paul Arzens (1903-1990) of which here is a photo!



Hyper futuristic for the time, right?

c) 1967: announcements by Renault and Citroën that the electric car is a highly envisaged development path!

d) 1992: The Renault Matra Zoom which has never seen anything but shows




e) Years 90: 11 VE for public institutions like Edf or the Post office, flop because of the limited autonomy 000km and the lifespan of battrie Nickel Cadmium with strong memory effect. An electric clio includes 80 NiCd "batteries" of 3kg each.

f) Example of an electric clio driver (90km per day to go bump anyway): the autonomy is not sufficient it must recharge (except when it is hot in summer) each time it returns.

g) 10 minutes of recharging at an electric terminal = 15 to 20 km of journey. To compare with the 3 minutes of full of diesel which allows to make 1000 km or more.

h) In Bordeaux, (citro c'est pour toi !!) a company buys these vehicles abandoned by the institutions and rehabilitates them.

Functional resale price: around 5000 €! (a case!)

800 customers on the waiting list, a year of delays! But what is the state doing?

The company is called: Accus Service (if a Bordeaux resident wants to know more?)

i) So pkoi and who is blocking the development of electric cars? Everyone reviews the fault of the others ... obviously.

- dealers who do not operate on EVs (obviously by the manufacturer)
- the price: 20 € for a clio
- performance: 8h charge, 80km
- the manufacturers who bet EVERYTHING on Diesel in the 90s! Currently there are between 100 and 200 people for a new car project, in the 80s it was 10!
- policies that did not favor or encourage the development of EVs
- For C. Lepage, minister at the time: it is the fault of the manufacturers who make EVs, too expensive and not efficient enough.

By cons it is not mentioned the economic weight of the sale of fuels ... which has undoubtedly, in part, not too motivated, neither the State nor the tanker to develop the VE. Having Edf's advice would have been nice ... but was omitted.

j) Presentation of the Lisélec de LaRochelle network.
- 5 € subscription per month
- 50 self-service EVs - like Vélib
- invoicing per km
- Barely 400 subscribers
- Project cost: 1 Million €

In my humble opinion it is the community that pays Lisélec.

Conclusion: interesting interview with Serge Dassault about the Cleanova, prototype based on a renault kangoo which is electro-hybridized.

For S. Dassault who demonstrated with Cleanova ( http://www.cleanova.com/public/sve/ ) the technical and financial viability of the EV (8000 € + 5000 € per year of subscription and 600km of autonomy with 20L of gasoline), it is clearly the fault of the manufacturers which blocks development with four irons. It's a "cultural problem" (and in my opinion of mental inertia and pride).

I like the: to the question pkoi Renault blocks "You have to ask them" dixit S. Dassault! Carlos Ghosn is against the electric car.

In the end, the question of the taxation of the "road" electric kWh is never mentioned either, just like the tankers ... these are however 2 very important factors for the EV!

[Christophe]

Ah, I hadn't seen the Cleanova slogan: plug & go ... plug in and move ...

Goes to have extensions say so!

[Christophe]

Look what I dug up (2005): https://www.econologie.com/cleanova-ii-n ... -2092.html

The vehicle is a "Partener" (or similar) driven by a synchronous electric motor powered by a rechargeable Lithium-ion battery on the sector or by the range extender (on-board generator) which can possibly recharge the battery while driving and give 390Km of autonomy to the vehicle at 110Km / H.

Commercialization expected in 2008, the station received 2 CLEANOVA vehicles.

[Christophe]

Bonus horus horribilis. A report by Clément Castex and Antonin Broutard

The purpose of the report is to convince, rightly in my opinion, that there is not "only CO2 in life" ... which is the boss of Audi France: "Fashion (implying marketing) it's CO2 "! A bit light as an analysis ... but so true!

a) Jean Paul Morin of INSERM analyzes in his lab the engines on ALL pollutants and their impact on animal tissue. It would be good to find traces of these works ... at least a summary!

For now I have found only that (and this is another study): http://www.zdnet.fr/actualites/internet ... 980,00.htm

b) The Automobile Magazine carried out an interesting "internal" classification of cars on their pollutants. I don't know how it was done.

It turns out that the big German sedans (bmw, mercedes ...) are the best placed despite their CO2 rate approaching 200 gr / km.

The smart arrives in the last third while, on CO2, it is the best.

Explanation according to the journalist: the Germans can clean up more easily because the price of their car is higher and therefore the additional cost of pollution control cheaper.

I would love to see the results for C6 or Versatis ...

c) Another journalist made his own consumption and CO2 test bench.

On a C5 hdi given for 4.4 L / 100 and 140 gr of CO2 it finds: 7,1 L / 100 ... No comment!

d) An interview with Borloo who will go down in history!

e) At the auto show, Greenpeace (France) is chained to the steering wheels of the German sedans (and not French like there would be no collusion in the air) and takes a severe jacket according to the journalists: the public does understands the pb of CO2 but not the gesture of Greenpeace which targets THAT German manufacturers ...

f) Visit to WWF about Greenwashing!
Clio diesel from 2000: 110 gr of CO2 / km
2008 Clio diesel: 117 gr of CO2 / km but sold as "green"

g) Barbara Schultz at an Audi party. I am "fully" for ecology. She thinks that her Audi Q8 pollutes less than the 205s of 1985 of "ugly poor" polluters which still circulate. "Thoroughly" I tell you!

[Christophe]

And the best for last, Mdi and the air car (it will heat up in Carros)!

I pass on the 4th report on the highway because although interesting it remains one more highway, therefore more traffic ... etc etc ... Just a figure: the ecological cost of the project is about 100 Million €.

An engineer who does not lack air. A report by Thomas Horeau and Annie Triboire

a) It starts with the presentation to the press, a big circus at the Mdi, of the brand new model in the range. The one that will be sold, if we tell you, in spring 2009 ... after homologation! Mdi thinks that in 6 months he will approve such an innovative vehicle?

He is confident there are lots of business men (especially foreigners) and some politicians (too much in their shenanigans to understand something technical). A wealthy Pakistani man is interested in a license (do you understand how MDi works now?).

This inauguration dates from October 10, 2008, so 7 days after I had T. Horeau on the phone.

b) Small tour in the factory. An engine test bench and a dismantled chassis. Note: a) the disc brakes = no air recuperation during braking which would have been extremely easy to do (engine in compressor mode) b) an "exhaust" no doubt to reduce noise

c) Jean Luc Moreau (another one!) from AutoBio is more than skeptical (like us)

d) Return to the factory: presentation of the history of the various prototypes. An idea comes to me: it looks like there is a prototype (plastic shell) per MDI "season of influence".

The voiceover is starting to be critical: since 96 we hear the same speech: almost ready, homologation and marketing next year ...

Would this be the right one this time?

e) In 2003, a prof. from the energy laboratory of the École des Mines de Paris makes some calculations on the mdi engine.
It finds 120 km of autonomy at best (extra urban), 40 km at worst (city). He claims to have sent these calculations to Mdi.

I will try to recover this file (I already asked the journalist)!

But for me the right question is not the range but the overall performance of the vehicle. Indeed; the air car is still sold as a "clean" car.

f) When we talk about this report to Mdi: they don't know it and ... we arrive at the most interesting scene of the report when the Negre son says: "Stop screwing my balls with this report" (twice he said) .... This is an unmistakable clue!

g) A PSA manager compares the air car to the water engine! I say no: it is because the performance is poor that it is a perpetual movement then it is incompetence and total misinformation ca! Guys who come out of such bullshit and who are in the top executives of a car manufacturer like that should be fired on the spot!

h) Mdi does not sell a vehicle, it sells an OPTION ON A FUTURE PURCHASE. All the financial scheming is here! As long as there will be "rich" people who have never opened a book on mechanics (or thermodynamics): the "Mdi economic system" will be viable ...

"It's not smart, it's legal" dixit G. Negre

i) Oh, I almost forgot: a demo on the parking lot the day before the press conference, a belt and the shock absorber that snapped in front of the camera after a few m ...

G. Negre: "You will not pass it" ... Ah well if they passed it ... Ah what bastards these journalists ...

[caracole]

BRAVO to Christophe for the "MDI panorama" and the little anecdotes from which I sip their flavor!

[Christophe]

The stream is available on the France2 website: http://info.france2.fr/complement-denqu ... 463-fr.php

[RIAZ]

Thank you Christophe for this account of the broadcast, which I saw and which AMHA, compared to the usual television stew and to that which deals with these subjects in particular, is a real masterpiece.

Of course there is an unfortunate weakness which has embarrassing consequences for the general understanding of the current situation.
All this agitation around the car, more generally of mobility, is due to the fact that we are going to have a mega problem of energy availability.
Therefore, the first (and often the only) question to ask in response to a proposed solution is: is it energy efficient when we integrate (obviously) the primary energy consumed.

With this question we eject in the first round, the electric, the hybrid and of course the weak link, the compressed air.

It's terrible to see 90 minutes of a program that is nevertheless well done and not complacent (who said it's the same thing ?!) go by without this reminder of the fundamental laws being made.

A special mention for the report on the NEGRE system which you saw, is not a compressed air motor but a money pump!
Honestly, I can't blame him. Being able to steal money in such large packages, to gogos whose brains are not on a portfolio scale, would rather delight me!
The simple remark of the repentant gogo who says that it is incomprehensible that 7 years later it is still impossible to have the real autonomy of the car checked, should be enough to put doubts in the head of the people who would so much like to believe that 'they lose common sense.

Serge DASSAULT has shown that it is not enough to be Marcel's son and to prosper with public money to be clever.
I have no doubt that its battery is efficient and that the electronic power control is at the top, but starting from a car body whose design is 50 years old, it's nonsense, why not a charette?
This choice induces a serious penalty on the mass of the vehicle with all the negative consequences, on the need for power and the consumption of raw materials .....
It should be married with Marie Antoinette of the electric who introduced the report ......

Finally to conclude, the archives will retain this sequence of the Citroën CEO interviewed in front of the HYPNOS and ridiculing himself for eternity by saying that this car represented the best we would find, soon, on our beautiful roads.

[Christophe]

Good advice Riaz, I spoil!

I had several times discussed with the journalist the yield on primary energy but he obscured the question in the report ... too bad because, as you say, it would have been valid for electricity too. Finally, we can't deal with everything either (even if it's the question number ONE).

"Primary energy is not a fashion" says the boss of Audi ...

Otherwise here is the 1st extract, the interview with Dassault precisely:
https://www.econologie.com/cleanova-de-d ... -3962.html

[Christophe]

Great, the journalist has just sent me the calculations of the Mines de Paris!

Here is the 1st report: https://www.econologie.com/calculs-d-aut ... -3963.html

A second in English will follow ... I must already swallow this one!