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Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
Leo Maximus
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by Leo Maximus » 17/07/08, 09:21

I was wrong about the BMW "Clean Power", it's not a thermal V8 but a... V12, you have to! And it's not 50 liters per hundred but 80 liters per hundred. Great! New record !

Are you sure http://www.motorlegend.com/essai-voitur ... 14388.html : To cover 100 km it took 80 liters of precious H2 at –250° C! The station installed in Berlin cost 400 million euros! While the compressed H2 usable on an electric car via a heat pump is manufactured by billions of m3 and is everywhere cheap!

BMW has been working on this prototype for 25 years (it's a fact, I have an Argus test bench dating from... 1991!). 25 years to lay something like this, it's dramatic. It is time for the very prestigious Bavarian manufacturer to bury this thing somewhere, very deep, that we never talk about it again and that they get down to business.
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Leo Maximus
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by Leo Maximus » 17/07/08, 18:40

Technical details on the hydrogen-powered Honda FCX Clarity:

http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=4351

The yield is given for 60%.

The efficiency of the famous hydrogen BMW 7 series is less than 10%.
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by Christophe » 17/07/08, 19:35

Leo Maximus wrote:BMW has been working on this prototype for 25 years (it's a fact, I have an Argus test bench dating from... 1991!). 25 years to lay something like this, it's dramatic. It is time for the very prestigious Bavarian manufacturer to bury this thing somewhere, very deep, that we never talk about it again and that they get down to business.


Yes it's a nice joke this series 7 at h2 because even if there was not such a monstrous consumption...(well we have to speak in kg and not in Liter with gases...) we don't do not yet know how to make H2 economically interesting obviously so it only shifts the problem of energy / pollution ...

Now BM is still working on some interesting innovations that it intends to industrialize such as the turbo streamer:

https://www.econologie.com/bmw-turbostea ... -2474.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/bmw-turbos ... t1281.html

More concretely, it's still the ONLY brand to offer start & stop and braking recovery as standard on its entire range (ok, they can afford it given the prices, some would say)... "nothing" prevents them required: https://www.econologie.com/forums/bmw-effici ... t4303.html
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by Woodcutter » 17/07/08, 22:04

Remundo wrote:It is not with me that we should titillate Lumberjack. : Cheesy:
Here, look at this, taken on the fly on the net (I don't have time to look too much ...),
http://www.science-decision.fr/cgi-bin/ ... ?sujet=ECO
In France, road transport is primarily responsible for CO2 emissions (26,4% of CO2 emissions compared to 25,3% for housing, 21,9% for industry, 12,9% for the production of energy, 10,5% for agriculture). In cities, they produce 90% of the CO2 present at ground level. Between 1990 and 2002, CO2 emissions from transport increased by 20% and from housing by 9%, while they decreased in all the other sectors.[...]

So in France, the share of the road is less than 1/3 in the consumption of oil.[...]
:roll: And compared to the basic quotation, what is the first producer of CO2 in your data?
And isn't the share of transport increasing?
The 1/3 or not, I don't give a shit...

I refresh the memory:
Remundo wrote:
Gordon McInnes wrote:If nothing is done, the transport sector will soon be the main contributor to CO2 emissions
from the EU Environment Agency, March 2008
--
FALSE, it's habitat and industry
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by Woodcutter » 17/07/08, 22:09

jonule wrote:[...] but the nuclear pretext makes me puke, sorry.

electric car = nuclear car.

[...]
That sounds like autism to me...
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by Flytox » 17/07/08, 22:14

Bonjour Christophe
Christophe wrote:More concretely, it's still the ONLY brand to offer start & stop and braking recovery as standard on its entire range (ok, they can afford it given the prices, some would say)... "nothing" prevents them required: https://www.econologie.com/forums/bmw-effici ... t4303.html


When you are a builder of fuel sinks, you are attacking the image and not the performance of sobriety. The main thing is to sell that BMW technology is there to save money, it gives a golden alibi to buyers who don't give a damn about paying for fuel but who have no desire to limit their pleasure and arrogance. . :frown:
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by Woodcutter » 17/07/08, 22:18

Christophe wrote:[...]Now BM is still working on some interesting innovations that it intends to industrialize such as the turbo streamer:[...]
BMW is one of the best motorists in the world and the efficiency of their production is undeniable!
They even manage to improve French engines when they use them for their ranges: the Mini Cooper D is at 104 gr/km while no comparable French engine comes close...
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by Woodcutter » 17/07/08, 22:21

Remundo wrote:[...] I know a Frenchman who says that natural gas is ecological, about as much as SP95 gasoline, quite : Lol: [...].
What is the problem ?
NGV is indeed the most interesting hydrocarbon from a health and environmental impact point of view...
From there to say that a hydrocarbon and its combustion are "ecological industrial printing process"...
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Leo Maximus
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by Leo Maximus » 18/07/08, 08:47

Christophe wrote:
Leo Maximus wrote:BMW has been working on this prototype for 25 years (it's a fact, I have an Argus test bench dating from... 1991!). 25 years to lay something like this, it's dramatic. It is time for the very prestigious Bavarian manufacturer to bury this thing somewhere, very deep, that we never talk about it again and that they get down to business.


Yes it's a nice joke this series 7 at h2 because even if there was not such a monstrous consumption...(well we have to speak in kg and not in Liter with gases...) we don't do not yet know how to make H2 economically interesting obviously so it only shifts the problem of energy / pollution ...

Now BM is still working on some interesting innovations that it intends to industrialize such as the turbo streamer:

https://www.econologie.com/bmw-turbostea ... -2474.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/bmw-turbos ... t1281.html

More concretely, it's still the ONLY brand to offer start & stop and braking recovery as standard on its entire range (ok, they can afford it given the prices, some would say)... "nothing" prevents them required: https://www.econologie.com/forums/bmw-effici ... t4303.html

With regard to liquid hydrogen then we can speak in liters I think, this is the case with the 7 hydrogen series. But it is a fact that we should speak in kg for hydrogen as for gasoline or diesel.

BMW didn't just make the liquid hydrogen 7 Series V12, they did it again with the liquid hydrogen Mini! The engine is a 4-cylinder thermal. But we must welcome BMW's initiatives aimed at achieving energy savings such as those which consist in operating certain elements only during periods of deceleration. There are no small savings it seems!
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by Chatham » 18/07/08, 09:17

Leo Maximus wrote:With regard to liquid hydrogen then we can speak in liters I think, this is the case with the 7 hydrogen series. But it is a fact that we should speak in kg for hydrogen as for gasoline or diesel.



The consumption of the hydrogen BMW 7 series is...~50 liters per 100km, which gives it ~300km of autonomy with the 170litres of the tank (mass of liquid hydrogen =~8kg) knowing that it takes energy equivalent 1/3 of the tank to maintain liquid hydrogen (-253°C)...And in 9 days, the tank loses 50% of its capacity by escape of hydrogen through the walls...
Which clearly means that the total energy consumption of this prototype is ~ that of a 40 ton truck...in other words strictly no future in this form...
Still interested in hydrogen?
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