Car of the future, future of the automobile, quotes

[Leo Maximus]

If you live in California then you can drive on hydrogen for a month in Honda Clarity:
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/
200 deliveries planned but 65000 requests!

[Remundo]

Nice indeed, I imagine that they sell the H2 service station as an option

All of this to say that there is no infrastructure for distributing H2, and even if they did exist, they would probably be even more energy-consuming than current petrol pumps.

In my opinion, you should not persist in storing and transporting H2, but keeping a liquid or solid storage capable of generating H2 in situ. It exists, it's called electropositive metals, including sodium. Aluminum would also work.

This in situ generation can operate a fuel cell as well as an internal combustion engine, like that of the BMW 7 series "clean power".

@+

[Leo Maximus]

The Honda Clarity is an electric vehicle that uses compressed gaseous hydrogen for its fuel cell while the hydrogen-powered BMW uses liquid hydrogen for its non-hybrid, large-displacement V8 heat engine. It is difficult to compare and I do not see the interest of hydrogen for a non-hybrid thermal V8, not even Stop & Go, which has an efficiency of less than 10% and consumes 50 liters of liquid H2 per 100 km. Maybe to drive "clean power" in town, in Monaco for example, and more ...

The French company Air Liquide has been installed in Japan for a long time and is very involved in the supply of H2. Here is a paragraph about the hydrogen extracted from the Air Liquide site:

How is it produced?
· Almost 80% of the H2 produced comes from the reforming of natural gas: this process is the most widespread because it is relatively easy to implement on a large scale and economically advantageous. Indeed, the methane molecule CH4 mixed with water and brought to high temperature produces heat, steam, CO, CO2 and H2.
Carbon monoxide (CO), carbon dioxide (CO2) and the combination of H2 and CO are marketed to the chemical industry for the manufacture of polycarbonates and polyurethanes (used, for example, for foams upholstery in furniture and cars), which helps optimize industrial efficiency and minimize CO2 emissions. Purification processes make it possible to obtain pure H2 as required.
· Obtaining H2 by electrolysis of water is an energy-consuming alternative, often suitable for the production of small volumes or close to low-cost hydroelectric sources (Canada for example).

According to Air Liquide, so nothing is lost. The link : http://www.axane.net/fr/corporate/AL_hydrogen.html

Honda will offer a H2 production station from natural gas, installable at home, the "Home Energy Station": http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarit ... ation.aspx

If I had a Honda Clarity, I could already drive electric PAC hydrogen because Air Liquide is installed a few km from my home.

[Remundo]

Hey, I see the "gas guys" are particularly excited. what would they not do to sell a few very expensive bottles under the guise of ecology!

I know a Frenchman who says that natural gas is ecological, about as much as gasoline SP95, completely

The H2 station at home, why not. The price remains to be known, and in any case, there is every chance of breaking down H2 in the life of the car by going for a walk "a little too far".

When we see that thermal / electric hybridization is still not in place while it is childish next to setting up the H2 sector, we say that the road is still long ... especially if we insists on using H2 as energy vector. You have to produce it , from solids or liquids.

[Leo Maximus]

Hey, I see the "gas guys" are particularly excited. what would they not do to sell a few very expensive bottles under the guise of ecology!

I know a Frenchman who says that natural gas is ecological, about as much as gasoline SP95, completely

The H2 station at home, why not. The price remains to be known, and in any case, there is every chance of breaking down H2 in the life of the car by going for a walk "a little too far".

When we see that thermal / electric hybridization is still not in place while it is childish next to setting up the H2 sector, we say that the road is still long ... especially if we insists on using H2 as energy vector. You have to produce it , from solids or liquids.

For me, refueling at Total or Air Liquide is the same.

The difference is rather at the user level: there is no electric vehicle that has such a long range and if I had a Honda Clarity, or an equivalent vehicle, then I could refuel at Air Liquid not far from home. Air Liquide is established throughout France. They supply hospitals, industries, laboratories with liquid air, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, helium, rare gases, etc. A long time ago I was a customer with them.

As for driving it is different because it seems to me that driving on hydrogen is not (yet) allowed in France because no TIPP.

[Leo Maximus]

A bit HS but related to the automobile of the future in the sense that it was indeed question that Toyota manufactured the Prius in France, project abandoned then. It is a sentence extracted from the electoral speech of Jean-Marie Le Pen: " Toyota-Valenciennes closes in 2002, although full of public subsidies - taken in the form of taxes to all taxpayers, you like me " This declaration which appeared on the site of our national counter moralist (personal opinion) was erased a few years ago, obviously.

The link : http://www.vie-publique.fr/cdp/023001684.html

Today Toyota employs 3800 people and exports almost 90% of its products. The Onnaing plant is said to be “zero waste”. I imagine it's true.

Slowly, but surely, Toyota takes control of its French and European equipment manufacturers, who are also the equipment manufacturers of French and European manufacturers ...

[Leo Maximus]

Hey, I see the "gas guys" are particularly excited. what would they not do to sell a few very expensive bottles under the guise of ecology!

One note: selling H2 has been Air Liquide's business for decades, it's not Total's at all. Air Liquide is French, established worldwide, in Japan, in California! What luck !

[Remundo]

It is very good that Air Liquide sells H2 for specific needs in small quantities, a large French group, etc ... This is not why it is smart to do it for the automobile, this n is no longer the same industry and H2 is an energy sink to produce, store and destock.

We must not let ourselves be lulled by "it only rejects water". H2 by reforming petroleum releases CO2 and consumes electricity to be compressed, compression energy that is completely lost. And the famous metallic H2 storage foams are not developed and seem even less efficient in energy density.

As for the "hydrolyzed and compressed" H2, it is a little less bad on the condition that the electricity is totally renewable, but these are currently the different paths of the electrical industry ...

source: http://www.manicore.com/documentation/voit_elect.html

Dark blue and yellow (renewable) make less than 20% for the OECD. And we should not look too much at the side of China ... Besides, the electricity needs would be colossal in an H2 sector comparable to that of 100% oil today ...

[Leo Maximus]

It is very good that Air Liquide sells H2 for specific needs in small quantities, a large French group, etc ... This is not why it is smart to do it for the automobile, this n is no longer the same industry and H2 is an energy sink to produce, store and destock.

Intelligent or not intelligent, if Air Liquide finds commercial outlets by selling H2 for the automobile then it will do so by applying a TIPP and everyone will be happy. That's how it is, trade is free, well, more or less ...

Regarding astronomical prices, according to Honda, in California the kilo of hydrogen is (ra) between $ 6 and $ 8 at the pump. The Honda Clarity fills up with 5 kg of H2 (30 to 40 $) which makes it possible to travel 570 km. The cost of the 100 km is therefore 3,5 euros to 4,7 euros. When you search the web a bit you find Russian H2 at just over a euro a kilo. I don't think it is sold at a loss.

[Leo Maximus]

The hydrogen produced in industrial quantities by Air Liquide is already used in the automobile to ... desulfurize the diesel in order to bring it up to standards . It's grotesque but true.

Air Liquide partner of Renault / Nissan in the hydrogen PAC vehicle: http://www.airliquide.com/