Calculations on the air motor of Mdi: figures finally!

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Remundo
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by Remundo » 24/10/08, 10:20

Hi Toff,
Christophe wrote:
buck


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and it's a teacher who says that!

A regulator or step-down would have been more suitable!

A regulator does not waste energy (or so little) as we can hear in your message when you say:
There is a loss of pressure without creating mechanical work

It was an image, an explanatory metaphor ... You’re a little overheated : Lol:
: Cheesy: You want me to plug you into a step-down chopper :?:
or better a 4 quadrant chopper. :P

For practice, I entrust the task to Nlc who is much better than me. :D

More seriously ... Precisely, for operation in stationary regime (a constant power called by the driver who drives at constant speed), the flow rate is fixed roughly by the volume and the engine speed.

And this being said, if you have fun running the engine on the lowered pressure, you have less power, while with the same flow rate without regulator, you could have more power. This is what the regulator does : Idea:

Good design, in fact, would be to have expansion pistons placed in series, and as the tank pressure drops, we would not use the pistons at the end of the chain, because only the former would be enough to lower the fluid pressure to atmospheric pressure.

This flexible multi-stage expansion design would also not prevent the famous "heaters" to take up a little pressure with the external heat (the adiabatic expansion cools the fluid).

The big problem with compressed air machines with high pressure storage is that they require a relaxation machine with an ultra-adaptive operating range: from 300 (full bottle) to a few Bar (empty bottle) for the pressure of Mdi admission !!

In my opinion, having such machinery is not justified economically, also, they use a pneumatic motor with small range of intake pressure, and in passing they must pre-relax in a dead volume without moving parts, and waste part of the energy there.
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by Christophe » 24/10/08, 10:25

Yes Remundo, you devoured me how are you :) Hihihihi she will stay in the anal this one!

Here is the report about Mdi where we see the author of one of the 2 studies of the Mines de Paris (from 9:55)

https://www.econologie.com/la-voiture-a- ... -3965.html

Stopped,

the boiler would only do 30% more than the standard model


Ok for what economic profitability? :) Do you have a url or .pdf that presents the version of DeDietrich? Is it stirling on oil or gas boilers?
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by Capt_Maloche » 24/10/08, 10:30

See on this subject: https://www.econologie.com/forums/chaudiere- ... 90-10.html

View presentation

Capt_Maloche wrote:I just met a representative of De Dietrich this morning and here are the docs and animation of the said boiler

It should be available in 2009, they call the BOILER GENERATOR
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There is actually a small burner 5KW dedicated to Stirling in series with a conventional burner
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Available in winter undoubtedly
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by Christophe » 24/10/08, 10:43

Ah I missed that! Tain the subject unearth of 2006 :)

I answered on the subject in question! Thank you for the info but I doubt ... very very strongly ... the interest of gas striling.

What interest compared to an oil cogenerator which will cost 10 times cheaper and therefore a much higher profitability (but already difficult ...) ...
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by Remundo » 24/10/08, 10:47

The Stirling does not make any noise, at least less than a Diesel 8)

But it is certain that they are in competition ... : Idea:
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by Christophe » 24/10/08, 10:50

The noise can be combated quite easily. It is not, for me, a primordial economic argument.

The 2 main economic arguments are:
a) the overall energy balance
b) financial profitability

ps: a well soundproofed generator set is 3 to 5 db more than a boiler ...
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by Capt_Maloche » 24/10/08, 12:45

This product can find its place in isolated residences

provided you have gas : Cheesy:
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by Christophe » 24/10/08, 12:49

Capt_Maloche wrote:This product can find its place in isolated residences

provided you have gas : Cheesy:



Image

Hihihhi, did you take comedy lessons too?

What more does it bring compared to a 5kW diesel generator (with oil if possible), whose technology is well established and recognized, at 2000 € installed in cogeneration?
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by RIAZ » 25/10/08, 13:52

The best proof that the (interested!) Ramblings of MDI are not of interest is that we are drifting towards a much more serious subject: micro-cogeneration!

I also believe that gas micro-cogeneration does not have the advantages that would justify its complexity.

Not agree with Christophe on the fact that the thing would be more interesting with a Diesel engine.
Simpler at first, yes, but the key to the system is the STIRLING engine.

=> It is perfectly suited to continuous, stationary operation, which is what killed it for automotive use.
=> It has a greater durability (50 to 100.000 hours between two revisions) much better suited to a heating system (1500 to 2000 hours per year).
=> And above all, icing on the cake, because it is external combustion, it is naturally poly-combustible, but really poly from poly. As soon as you know how to heat, you can transplant a STIRLING.

This last virtue opens the way for renewable fuels, especially wood, pellets to be precise. In this case, we exchange a certain complexity for heat production et ZERO CO2 electricity. We get at the same time a classification A for the CO2 of the house thus heated and ultimately, inevitably, an attractive price for buying back the current produced.

This last characteristic also shows that these systems must have the greatest possible ratio between electricity production and thermal production for their economic benefit to be clear. The offer of De Dietrich is not placed in relation to this criterion.
WHISPERGEN's offer is also penalized by this ratio. The STIRLING solo is much better, but gas powered.

The best solution to date, AMHA, is the SUNMACHINE, with 3 KW electric and 10,5 KW thermal and which works with wood pellets.
The TOP, and with that, our pellet car ...!
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Edit by Christophe: addition of links on micro cogeneration:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/micro-coge ... t1698.html
https://www.econologie.com/micro-cogener ... -3897.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/moteurs-st ... t5703.html
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by Christophe » 25/10/08, 15:01

RIAZ wrote:Not agree with Christophe on the fact that the thing would be more interesting with a Diesel engine.
Simpler at first, yes, but the key to the system is the STIRLING engine.


Sorry i'm punching and signing, currently and economically: a small diesel cogenerator or gas engine is more interesting than a striling especially if we supply the stirling with a fossil fuel! https://www.econologie.com/forums/moteurs-st ... t5703.html

KWB plans to abandon the development of its SPM Stirling Power Module in favor of a micro wood gasifier that would power a "Diesel CNG" engine, for good reason.

Disagree with maintenance! 100h between 000 revisions? Where do you get these numbers from? Nothing but lubricating oil! It also degrades on a stirling and I doubt it will last 2h ...
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